# Make a computer from scratch kits? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 21, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-computer-from-scratch-kits/666834 "2013-08-21T23:15:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-computer-from-scratch-kits/666834/21 "2013-08-22T21:08:17Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Is there anything like this out there? I don’t mean putting together your own Windows 8 system with off the shelf parts, but more like something where you build a basic computer around a 6502 or Z80 processor and various other parts on a breadboard. > > I guess what I’m looking for is something where you put together a basic computer and learn how all the parts interconnect and work with each other at a very low level. I don’t have a lot of electronics experiences beyond those Radio Shack 200-in-1 type kits. I understand the basics of transistors and logic gates and I know what the various electronics components do in general. I understand the basics of how a computer works (I’m pretty familiar with 6502 op codes and its general architecture), but I don’t know how ICs interact exactly with “the rest of the world” in a real way, just an abstract one. > > With that vague description, is there anything out there that might interest me, that might give me the foundation to build a basic computer “from scratch.” I’ve found some computer projects online, but I’m wondering if anyone has something more formalized that starts with the basics and ends with creating a basic functional computer. Have you considered logic simulators? That might be a cheaper and easier way to play around until you have your design figured out. > **[Logic simulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_simulation)** > > Logic simulation is the use of simulation software to predict the behavior of digital circuits and hardware description languages. Simulation can be performed at varying degrees of physical abstraction, such as at the transistor level, gate level, register-transfer level (RTL), electronic system-level (ESL), or behavioral level. > Logic simulation may be used as part of the verification process in designing hardware. > Simulations have the advantage of providing a familiar look and feel to the user... ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-computer-from-scratch-kits/666834/22 "2013-08-22T21:15:20Z")
Screw logic simulators. Wires, transistors, chips, and LEDs is what you want. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-computer-from-scratch-kits/666834/23 "2013-08-22T21:40:20Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Screw logic simulators. Wires, transistors, chips, and LEDs is what you want. 🙂 That’s my feelings, too. I want to get my hands on the parts. But it’s a cool tool if I ever want to get something really complicated going and at least seeing if it works in theory. But I think that’s at a far more advanced level than I am now. This little [4-bit transistor computer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xISG4nGTQYE), while not from a ready-to-go kit, seems like it should be doable without too much fuss in getting the parts. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-computer-from-scratch-kits/666834/24 "2013-08-22T21:45:01Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Screw logic simulators. Wires, transistors, chips, and LEDs is what you want. Screw transistors. Use relays. They go clickety-clack and are awesome. (I’m actually in the middle of building a 8-bit relay adder on some old protoboard, using designs left over by [Konrad Zuse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Zuse). Here’s my [one-bit prototype](http://imgur.com/nLb8Sgd). If I have enough relays leftover I’ll add in some sequential logic and make a real computer. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-computer-from-scratch-kits/666834/25 "2013-08-22T21:49:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Ebay has one for sale. New > [http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-Computer-Trainer-Intel-8085-Based-With-128-page-Lesson-Manual-Brand-New-/251296925169?pt=Educational\_Toys\_US&hash=item3a8276c5f1](http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-Computer-Trainer-Intel-8085-Based-With-128-page-Lesson-Manual-Brand-New-/251296925169?pt=Educational_Toys_US&hash=item3a8276c5f1) That thing looks really cool. I’m pretty sure I could launch a few nuclear missiles with it. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-computer-from-scratch-kits/666834/26 "2013-08-22T23:20:29Z")
The first computer I ever did more than type a few terminal commands on was an Altair 8800 I helped a friend build. You can still find the kits (at least, the PC board set) out there. I remember it was quite a thrill to toggle in the NIM game and have it work. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-computer-from-scratch-kits/666834/27 "2013-08-22T23:23:00Z")
That was a sweet machine- but the 8080A chip uses funny supply voltages. +12, +5 and -5, I believe. The Z-80 and later were pure 5V devices, so simpler to build a working computer. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-computer-from-scratch-kits/666834/28 "2013-08-23T17:09:35Z")
In EE 474 (IIRC) we designed and built (wire-wrap) an 8085 based computer. Basically it was a CPU, a UART, a RAM chip, and an EPROM. The “OS” which we wrote had 4 commands - read some memory, write some memory, run a program, and something else (my partner and I wrote a Morse code sending program) We interfaced with the serial port. Good times. Brian [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-computer-from-scratch-kits/666834.md?page=1)