# Make a stupid choice with a stupid person and you're surprised when stupidity ensues? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399 "2009-03-31T05:45:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/1 "2009-03-31T05:45:12Z")
Dear Facebook friend, Today your status update said you are: > [@](#): > > excited, I finally got a CHILD SUPPORT payment, 1st one in years, wow, for 10.96! LOL ya it's like why bother? I am sure it's only because he went to one of those Job force places that has labor jobs "as needed" and he did it enough to get some quick cash , and they had to take out Clearly your comment is designed to malign or embarrass your child’s father and his deadbeatedness, but do you realize you are also embarrassing yourself by drawing attention to your terribly poor decision making skills? You chose to let this apparently uneducated, chronically unemployed or underemployed man stick his dick in you and ejaculate, presumably while neither of you utilized birth control, and chose to bear his offspring. So why are you surprised when this loser doesn’t make child support payments? Or do you want us to believe that, out of spite, he has remained unemployed or underemployed for the 13-some years since your child has been around just to avoid paying child support? You chose to copulate and procreate with a man who, 13 years later, the only job he can get is a “labor job” through “job force,” and you’re surprised that you’re only getting $10 and change after years of nothing? Certainly you should have caught on to the fact that this guy wasn’t good “daddy” material when you opened your legs for him. Yes the guy is a scumbag for not supporting his child. But he was probably a scumbag before he fathered your child. It’s too bad you weren’t more discerning about who you let impregnate you. The same goes for your Facebook friends who added these comments: > [@](#): > > I have a friend who’s daughter is now 18, and her baby daddy hasn’t paid in 15 yrs. He is in jail now, only out on work release until the back child support is paid. So he works during the day, and sleeps in the jail. He actually had the nerve to not want to pay because he says that the child is now 18. LOL, the judge said that he had 15yrs worth of paymentss to make before that issue can even be addressed. Don’t give up, your child is entitled to it. And… > [@](#): > > that is more than the first one i got after several years…it was $1.82. Hope it gets better 🙂 I am so sick of hearing you and many other women I know complain about how their “baby daddies” don’t pay them enough child support. Are you really surprised? You knew the guy was a loser before you got knocked up, what made you think he would change and be able to produce the big bucks for you and your kid after the kid is born? Yes your child is entitled to support from their father, but they are also entitled to being mothered by a person with a sense of responsibility and good judgment. Sincerely, Your friend **nyctea scandiaca** Who has managed to make it to age 33 without bearing the illegitimate offspring of destitute losers through the use of modern birth control technology and good judgment ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/2 "2009-03-31T05:47:48Z")
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**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/3 "2009-03-31T05:54:34Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > \ I know, _right_? Enjoy the show! ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/4 "2009-03-31T06:02:14Z")
Allow me to apologize for the way my poor life choice affects you. Clearly it’s causing you distress. Next time I think about hooking up with a loser, I’ll think of you and take a pass in case two forms of birth control\* fail me again. - - Ok, one form failed me (the condom). I failed the other, I screwed up the dose and didn’t even realise for, oh, about four weeks, when I began to suspect that maybe something was going on. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/5 "2009-03-31T06:05:09Z")
A related or maybe unrelated pondering… Is evolution dead for the human race? In nature, you see countless examples of the male of the species putting on some sort of display of his worthiness in order to convince the female to mate with him. This is to demonstrate his superior genetic stock and in many cases his ability and willingness to provide for the offspring. Witness the many bird species whose males are brightly colored or marked and carry out elaborate mating displays in order to get a mate. Hopefully the female choses wisely because she needs the male to participate in the chicks’ upbringing. It’s beautiful to see how dedicated some of these male birds are to sharing parenting duties with the females. Also true is that in other animal species, the male simply mates and then disappears, and the female does all the work in raising the offspring. But that’s only in species who do not pair-bond. Aren’t humans supposed to pair-bond? Or is this evolutionary trait dying off with the advent of modern society? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/6 "2009-03-31T06:09:19Z")
> [@Cazzle](#): > > Allow me to apologize for the way my poor life choice affects you. Clearly it’s causing you distress. Next time I think about hooking up with a loser, I’ll think of you and take a pass in case two forms of birth control\* fail me again. > > - > - Ok, one form failed me (the condom). I failed the other, I screwed up the dose and didn’t even realise for, oh, about four weeks, when I began to suspect that maybe something was going on. I know as well as anyone that birth control can fail. As I have said on this board before, I have had to have two abortions because I became pregnant while on the pill, despite taking it as directed. People get to choose who they procreate with… and they have a measure of personal responsibility. It’s annoying to me when I see women who act surprised when the losers they procreated with can’t pay their child support, then bitch about it and act like pitiful victims. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/7 "2009-03-31T06:16:41Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > It’s annoying to me when I see women who act surprised when the losers they procreated with can’t pay their child support, then bitch about it and act like pitiful victims. Just to clarify: it’s the children who are the victims. They got unlucky in the parent department - a father who can’t support the child or himself, and a mother who chose such a father for her child. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/8 "2009-03-31T06:21:31Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > Aren’t humans supposed to pair-bond? Or is this evolutionary trait dying off with the advent of modern society? I don’t think there’s been many studies that say humans pair-bond actually. It’s a strategy sure, but it’s not a hardwired one into all humans I believe, so it’s not something that we as a species tend to do. Though if you have a cite for that, i’d love to read more about it. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/9 "2009-03-31T06:38:07Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > Just to clarify: it’s the children who are the victims. They got unlucky in the parent department - a father who can’t support the child or himself, and a mother who chose such a father for her child. It may not have been the ideal choice, but you sound as though you are assuming that bad choice automatically makes them bad mothers. Maybe these women were irresponsible (or birth control failed) But then when they found a child was coming, they whipped into shape a bit, and are now failing to understand why the father couldn’t do the same, if they managed it. Sometimes that happens. Only you know whether or not that’s the case with your friend. I don’t know anything about her to determine whether she’s otherwise a good mother. But again, I don’t see why they lose their right to bitch. They have managed to step up and take some responsibility for the care of their child, whatever their circumstances were before. Why is it unreasonable that they should expect the same of the co-parent? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/10 "2009-03-31T06:40:23Z")
> [@Ro0sh](#): > > I don’t think there’s been many studies that say humans pair-bond actually. It’s a strategy sure, but it’s not a hardwired one into all humans I believe, so it’s not something that we as a species tend to do. Though if you have a cite for that, i’d love to read more about it. Good question. From wiki: > [@](#): > > [Pair bond](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_bond): In biology, a pair bond is the strong affinity that develops in some species between the males and or females in a pair, potentially leading to breeding. The term often implies either a lifelong socially monogamous relationship or a stage of mating interaction in socially monogamous species. It is sometimes used in reference to human relationships. That description sounds like it matches the overwhelming majority of humans throughout recorded history, does it not? Just as we describe certain species as pair-bonding due to observations of this behaviors, can’t we generally describe humans as pair-bonding due to simple observations that the majority of humans have behaved in this manner for as long as we can remember? I don’t have a cite right now, although I will look for one. However, I would be interested to see a cite that says that humans _DO NOT_ tend to pair-bond, as you say. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/11 "2009-03-31T06:51:40Z")
> [@torie](#): > > It may not have been the ideal choice, but you sound as though you are assuming that bad choice automatically makes them bad mothers. No, I don’t automatically think that a woman who makes a child with less-than-desirable father material is a bad mother. She is just a woman who acted with poor judgment and made poor decisions. It’s how she acts after the child is born, and how she raises him, that makes her a good or bad mother. > [@torie](#): > > They have managed to step up and take some responsibility for the care of their child, whatever their circumstances were before. Why is it unreasonable that they should expect the same of the co-parent? It may not be unreasonable for them to expect the father to provide support, but when you’re dealing with a guy like the one in the OP, it’s unrealistic. The child in the OP is at least 13 or 14, and his mother is 34 or 35. And the kid’s father is working odd unskilled labor jobs, and makes so little that his first child support payment in years is a mere $10. So what state do you think this man was in when he made the baby 13 years ago? I’m guessing he wasn’t in college or starting a promising career. Yet she chose him to father her child anyway. So for this woman to hold her deadbeat “baby daddy” up to ridicule while portraying herself as a victim actually results in the opposite of the desired outcome: it just highlights her poor choices. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/12 "2009-03-31T07:01:07Z")
Also, to **Ro0sh** - maybe not a cite, but [this post by JR Brown](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10987128&postcount=70) which says that “One of the primary evolutionary functions of sex is pair-bonding…” Reading that post may have been what got my mind on that tangent. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/13 "2009-03-31T08:27:24Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > So for this woman to hold her deadbeat “baby daddy” up to ridicule while portraying herself as a victim actually results in the opposite of the desired outcome: it just highlights her poor choices. Well, that certainly wasn’t my reaction to reading the Facebook remarks that you quoted. I was disgusted with the deadbeat father and sympathetic to the child and mother as victims of his irresponsibility, just as the mother presumably intended. Even if she did, thirteen years ago, make a horrendously bad choice about a sex partner and/or screw up her birth control, I think she looks pretty good by comparison with the loser she’s complaining about. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/14 "2009-03-31T10:39:48Z")
There’s something frightfully archaic about the idea that once you’ve made your bed, you have to lie in it. This was the attitude that kept abuse and neglect secret and shameful. I can see how a particular person who never stops bitching about the consequences of a particular poor choice and who never sees that choice as having any role in their circumstances could be annoying–I work with a woman like that, and there are days when I want to pull my hair out in frustration rather than listen to another identical story about her life. But I think it’s really inappropriate and unfair to generalize out to all women who ever complain at all about a sub-standard partner. ---
**Author:** ![SomeUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e480ec/32.png) [@SomeUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeUserName)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/15 "2009-03-31T10:39:57Z")
Just because a parent is a deadbeat now does not mean they were always that way. We were married and we had two kids. At the time he worked and took care of the house and the bills. It was not until many years after the divorce that he became a deadbeat dad. Not all single parents that are not getting support made a stupid mistake with some loser a million years ago. Many non-custodial parents think that since the child is not living with them that they don’t have to pay or they refuse to pay because they hate the ex so bad they lose sight of the child. Whether a mistake happened or it was a planned child, the fact is that the custodial parent is now raising the child on only half of the income it takes. I applaud all parents that are going though it or have been through it. That Facebook comment to me was just a vent. I am sure there are times she gets frustrated. It is very hard to keep those sort of feelings away from the child so maybe she used Facebook to let off some steam. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/16 "2009-03-31T11:01:28Z")
Stupid people abound. You sleep with a loser and you shouldn’t be surprised that he remains a loser after you bear his child. And if you complicate your mistake by going on government assistance because you can’t afford to raise your own child, then you involve me in your stupidity because money is taken away from feeding and educating my own children to feed and educate yours. And that is patently unfair. Hence the angst. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/17 "2009-03-31T11:30:24Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > And if you complicate your mistake by going on government assistance because you can’t afford to raise your own child, then you involve me in your stupidity because money is taken away from feeding and educating my own children to feed and educate yours. And that is patently unfair. Hence the angst. What a lovely sentiment. I think that we should instigate a rule with immediate effect that prevents some people from procreating because others don’t wish to be in a society that supports the child. Or perhaps form a colony somewhere else for all the people that don’t understand what being in a civilised society means. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/18 "2009-03-31T12:26:07Z")
> [@Martiju](#): > > What a lovely sentiment. I think that we should instigate a rule with immediate effect that prevents some people from procreating because others don’t wish to be in a society that supports the child. > > Or perhaps form a colony somewhere else for all the people that don’t understand what being in a civilised society means. Many Americans do not seem to agree with the rest of the Western world (or the rest of the world, period) on what constitutes a civilized society. I leave it as an exercise for the reader whether this is a good or bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/19 "2009-03-31T12:38:39Z")
For whatever reasons, I married someone because I loved his potential. His reality was a slow pathetic slide into alchoholism. Someone who feels like searching can find some of my stories of my marriage, and my separation. When my son was six months old. Alanon and a family friend showed me that the only change I could make was in myself. I decided I didn’t want to live that way, not when I have the means to support myself very well. I left my husband, took my six month old baby and although the first few months had some rough spots I never looked back. He however moved to the other side of the country, and has not had a phone in his name in several years. His mother tells me he couch surfs, lives in residential hotels, and so forth. She sees him about once a year despite being in the same city. He has alienated friends and family. I also chose not to persue child support. His attitude is people who work more than 30 hours a week are “chumps”. I really am not interested in whatever government mandated child support a 30 hour a week worker making minimum wage can provide. I get flack for not persuing it… its my sons money and not mine to refuse. By not persuing child support I eliminate one possible source of grief for myself, and an alchoholic who is prone to public scenes, and unable to follow through on his promises from my son’s life. I’m lucky. I don’t NEED his money. I don’t whine about my ex, he has made his own choices and they are sad ones. I’m in contact with my ex mother in law because she is a) a nice lady, b) my son’s grandmother c) a way my ex can make contact if he ever choses, and vice versa. My son is a happy bright child who has never had a failed promise made by an alcoholic parent. (since six months of age…) He has loving grandparents, and a “step-dad” (not married but live in partner) who calls my boy “our boy”. He is raised in a home where both parents work, and work hard, I have a full tiime job and my partner and I are starting a business (yes in this economy and its doing well by any measure of success) and any alcohol that is consumed is in moderation. He knows there are pictures of a certain man in his baby book, and that that person used to live with us, but “he made Mommy cry, and we used to fight alot, and then we decided not to live with the yelling anymore.” I too find public whining about child support or lack there of embarassing and sad. But my income is good, I can support myself. Others are not so lucky. Despite being a “heart NDP pinko,” I have no illusion the world owes me a living, nor does the dead beat ex. Others aren’t so lucky. So I pay my taxes, and vote for universal daycare, and donate clothes to women’s shelters, and volunteer at food banks, I employ single mom’s and let them flex their schedule for child care reasons… but I still feel the sentiments of some in this thread that think I should not have had my child. Because I got involved with someone who has a disease and its made me a single mom. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/20 "2009-03-31T12:45:35Z")
> [@Martiju](#): > > What a lovely sentiment. I think that we should instigate a rule with immediate effect that prevents some people from procreating because others don’t wish to be in a society that supports the child. > > Or perhaps form a colony somewhere else for all the people that don’t understand what being in a civilised society means. Please spare me the sanctimony. If you have a healthy mind and body, you should support yourself and your offspring. That is your duty as a member of a civilized society. If you CHOOSE not to work to clothe and house yourself and your children, like the men in the OP, then you have earned the contempt of people who do. I’d cheerfully voluntarily give up a portion my wages for people who have been shat on by life and are physically or mentally incapable of taking care of themselves. Or the good people who’d LOVE to work but can’t find it. But I’m justifiably angry that so many of the dollars that should be going to support truly needy people are being diverted to people who COULD work but choose not to. And there are plenty of them, including some relatives of mine. I’m especially angry when those men and women then create another generation for the already over-taxed workers to support. It’s not fair and it’s not ethical. If that notion offends you, then so be it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399.md?page=2)