# Make a stupid choice with a stupid person and you're surprised when stupidity ensues? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399 "2009-03-31T05:45:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/41 "2009-03-31T14:42:19Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > But I’ll eat my stylish-yet-affordable boots if \*\*nyctea scandiaca \*\*has never fucked a man she wouldn’t necessarily want to marry and raise children with. Unfortunately, yes, in my younger, college years, I have been with a few losers. But I did so knowing that I would be willing to do the responsible thing if I became pregnant, which I have indeed done (abortion). It’s not fun, and it’s not something to be proud of, but it’s just a hard choice that some women have to make, and I am grateful that I have that choice. Sex isn’t just fun and games. Creating a new human being shouldn’t be something that “just happens” because you got drunk and fucked someone. If you’re willing to open your legs and let a guy ejaculate inside you, then you have to take responsibility for whatever comes of it, whether it be a pregnancy, an STD, or emotional entanglements. If you chose to go through with having the child, why are you surprised when your drunken lay turns out to be a deadbeat loser, and then you proceed to play the poor pitiful victim? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/42 "2009-03-31T14:49:04Z")
You know, I’m as pro-choice as they come. I’ve had two abortions myself. And as mentioned, I’m not big with the bitching and moaning. But if you think that actually makes you \*a better person \*than someone who chose to have a child and occasionally bitches about getting financially screwed…? That’s just fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/43 "2009-03-31T14:54:31Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not fun, and it’s not something to be proud of, but it’s just a hard choice that some women have to make, and I am grateful that I have that choice. I am gobsmacked that your own experience somehow made you more callous toward others facing the same choice, rather than less. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/44 "2009-03-31T15:10:08Z")
> [@Beadalin](#): > > I am gobsmacked that your own experience somehow made you more callous toward others facing the same choice, rather than less. Well, apparently everyone who doesn’t choose like her and who chooses not to play the silent martyr afterwards is stupid. She made a choice. I made a \*stupid \*choice. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/45 "2009-03-31T15:10:46Z")
Hmmm…makes me want to make sure I pick and choose a good status from now on so my Facebook friend **nyctea scandiaca** won’t ever pit me over it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/46 "2009-03-31T15:19:42Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > A related or maybe unrelated pondering… > > Is evolution dead for the human race? In nature, you see countless examples of the male of the species putting on some sort of display of his worthiness in order to convince the female to mate with him. This is to demonstrate his superior genetic stock and in many cases his ability and willingness to provide for the offspring. Witness the many bird species whose males are brightly colored or marked and carry out elaborate mating displays in order to get a mate. Hopefully the female choses wisely because she needs the male to participate in the chicks’ upbringing. It’s beautiful to see how dedicated some of these male birds are to sharing parenting duties with the females. > > Also true is that in other animal species, the male simply mates and then disappears, and the female does all the work in raising the offspring. But that’s only in species who do not pair-bond. Aren’t humans supposed to pair-bond? Or is this evolutionary trait dying off with the advent of modern society? Whether fortunately or otherwise, no, it doesn’t work that way. Being the kind of imbecile who copulates with a loser who will never give her or the children he creates a second thought is a perfectly viable strategy from evolution’s “point of view”, if it induces her to have more children who reach viability than she otherwise would have done. Much the opposite, in fact - the responsible couple who only has two children that they can support themselves is at an evolutionary disadvantage compared with the woman who has three and lives on welfare all her life. Evolution “doesn’t care” if you are happy or responsible - it cares only about market share. To the extent that the choice of loser vs. family man is genetically influenced, those genes will be selected for. To the extent that it is culturally influenced, that cultural set will be selected for. We no longer live in a hunter-gatherer society, and it is perfectly possible to raise a large family without a partner to assist. You don’t live very well, but that doesn’t make any difference, in the completely impersonal logic of evolution - as long as your children don’t actually starve to death before they reproduce, the welfare queen is at an advantage over the rest of us (_cereris paribus_). Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? That is a question raised by humans - the terms have no meaning applied to evolution. > [@DianaG](#): > > Hmm… here’s a thought. Sometimes, I have sex with people based on my desire for sex. I am not choosing a suitable father and life-partner every time I have sex. Since (as you have discovered) birth control is not 100% reliable, yes you are. Whether you like it or not. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/47 "2009-03-31T15:22:54Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > I you can’t afford to raise babies, then you shouldn’t be making them. I also thoroughly support long-term birth control options (Norplant? is there a long-term yet reversable option for men?) for all people, men and women, on welfare. Go fuck yourself, you fucking prick. I knew a girl in high school who was kind of a burn out, dated a loser, and got pregnant. THEN she turned HER life around, grew up, became a good mom, and a pretty mature person. The two of us became friends in college. Sadly, the kid’s father was still a deadbeat loser. According to the OP, she has no right to complain. People never change. They’re supposed to suffer and be berated for something they did at FIFTEEN for the rest of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/48 "2009-03-31T15:36:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Since (as you have discovered) birth control is not 100% reliable, yes you are. Whether you like it or not. Actually, all that means is that I may get pregnant. And then I have several options as to what to do about that. Whether you like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/49 "2009-03-31T15:46:33Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Some people, like JulieFoolie, do indeed end up in a position they could not have forseen. > > But we all know people who charge ahead, knocking over red flags left and right as they get into relationships, ignoring all of their friends and all well-meaning advice. They think they can change him - then they get pregnant, and suddenly he runs, and even though he showed every sign of being a terrible prospective father, suddenly they are SHOCKED, SHOCKED, I tell you, and he turns into the most horrible person. And they get hit over the head by every red flag on the way back out. > > Yes, accidents happen, mistakes happen, but too often I see people deliberately putting their foot in the bear trap and then crying when it closes. And not just young people, either. There’s something in the idea of “true love” that seems to make people crazy. I wish we’d do a little less romanticizing of relationships as a people, and try and teach a little more self-respect and value to both men and women. Of course we all know people like that. I work with a woman whose life has been one of perpetual misery for the entire seven years we’ve worked together, and in her mind not one thing she’s done has been in any way ,shape, or form her fault–she just has terrible luck. I grind my teeth every day. Had the OP bitched about one particular person, with details about how that particular person is a whining puppy with no self-awareness of their own complicity in their drama, I don’t think people would be upset–I think people would be lining up to tell their own stories. But generalizing it to everyone who has a less-than-stellar former partner is incredibly insulting and hurtful. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/50 "2009-03-31T15:51:05Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Actually, all that means is that I may get pregnant. And then I have several options as to what to do abou that. Whether you like it or not. Absolutely. And if you don’t avail yourself of those, then you have more children than you would otherwise have done. And therefore the strategy of reproducing with a loser is going to be selected for, and the strategy of not reproducing with a loser is going to be selected against. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/51 "2009-03-31T16:02:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by DianaG > Hmm… here’s a thought. Sometimes, I have sex with people based on my desire for sex. I am not choosing a suitable father and life-partner every time I have sex. > [@Shodan](#): > > Since (as you have discovered) birth control is not 100% reliable, yes you are. Whether you like it or not. > > Regards, > Shodan How do you figure? She didn’t deem him suitable or a life-partner. She chose to take a chance and have sex that might result in a pregnancy, and had a child based on the outcome of her gamble. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/52 "2009-03-31T16:05:25Z")
I’m dismayed to find myself agreeing with **Shodan**. There’s something to what the OP is saying. The women who get knocked up by these losers have made not one, but two irresponsible choices. The first is to let a guy ejaculate in them who they didn’t want to have a baby with (and I don’t want to hear about failed birth control. The fact that we know birth control can fail means that we also know _any_ coupling can result in a pregnancy and both parties are knowingly taking that risk when they have potentially procreative intercourse). Their second irresponsible choice is to keep a baby they didn’t want and can’t take care of rather than doing the mature thing and either terminating the pregnancy (the best choice) or putting the baby up for adoption. That’s not to say these guys shouldn’t be made to pay, but these women are not without responsibility themselves and they DID choose these creeps of their own free will. My sympathy is for their children. I do not have sympathy for their whining that they chose to let a loser knock them up. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/53 "2009-03-31T16:10:51Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > How do you figure? She didn’t deem him suitable or a life-partner. She chose to take a chance and have sex that might result in a pregnancy, and had a child based on the outcome of her gamble. Maybe not as a life partner, but she chose him as a father. Choosing to have potentially procreative sex (“protected” or not) is a choice to get pregnant, just like choosing to drive drunk is a choice to get arrested (or crash). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/54 "2009-03-31T16:14:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Their second irresponsible choice is\*\* to keep a baby they didn’t want and can’t take care of\*\* rather than doing the mature thing and either terminating the pregnancy (the best choice) or putting the baby up for adoption. Bolding mine. Where the fuck did this come from, now? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/55 "2009-03-31T16:16:09Z")
From the whining about child support. If you can’t support a baby without child support, don’t fuck losers. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/56 "2009-03-31T16:17:52Z")
Are we allowed to say “fuck you” again? I see at least two people saying that in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/57 "2009-03-31T16:19:17Z")
The fact that the child mentioned in the OP is now 14 indicates that the child was both wanted and, in fact, cared for. It does NOT mean that caring for the child was as easy as it could have been had the father ponied up child support. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/58 "2009-03-31T16:27:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > From the whining about child support. If you can’t support a baby without child support, don’t fuck losers. Whining doesn’t mean you can’t function. I whined this morning about wanting to stay in bed–doesn’t mean I am incapable of going to work. _Excessive_ whining is annoying and a personality flaw, but that’s not what’s being bitched about here. The woman was shocked and startled to get a child-support check for $10 and found it ironic considering the the magnitude of debt that hadn’t been paid. I mean, if I owed you tens of thousands of dollars and sent you a check for $10, you’d roll your eyes, wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/59 "2009-03-31T16:36:24Z")
While I do not agree with everything nyctea scandiaca is saying, I can definitely see where she is coming from. I have friends that are the same way. They choose men who seemed to have no real earning potential in life thinking they may change. To hear them bitch and moan about the same guys not working when they were together, now not working to pay their child support, is annoying to say the least. What did these women think would magically happen? The courts can order support but you can’t get blood out of a stone. I suppose nyctea scandiaca is aware her facebook friend made bad choices from the start and really should understand that she is now paying for those bad choices. She considers herself a victim but really, she is a victim of her own bad choices. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/60 "2009-03-31T16:52:13Z")
I’m going to withdraw my statement that keeping the baby is necessarily irresponsible (though sometimes it clearly is), but it’s still hard to feel particularly sympathetic towards women who complain that the loser they allowed to impregnate them is a loser. If you’re going to fuck a skunk, don’t bitch about the smell. I feel the same about guys who talk about what bitches and cunts their baby mamas are. They made their own beds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399.md?page=4)