# Make a stupid choice with a stupid person and you're surprised when stupidity ensues? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399 "2009-03-31T05:45:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/141 "2009-04-01T04:24:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You’ll have to show me where she ever complained about a single one of her choices. You’re grasping at straws here. Try something else. Even if you were posing an ACCURATE _tu quoque_, it would still be irrelevant. She complained about her husband’s choice in the mother of his children. He chose to have babies with a “psycho.” The Facebook friend chose to have babies with a “loser.” Why is one situation OK to bitch about and the other isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/142 "2009-04-01T04:25:35Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > What’s interesting to me about all this is that I heard this kind of complaining from men all the time, about their “crazy ex” and how she’s messing with their kids, demanding more money, is a total monster, etc. Now, couldn’t you have known that she was an impossible psycho bitch BEFORE you stuck your unwrapped dick in her and made babies? > > If there’s no excuse for a woman having babies with loser men, there’s no excuse for men having babies with psycho women. I’m not sure why there’s a difference. Women who believe their man that his ex is a psycho worthy only of contempt are ignoring the important fact that their man CHOSE to reproduce with this woman, so he is just as culpable for the situation. > > Not sure why the OP is drawing a distinction here, since I think it’s the same situation with the genders reversed. I didn’t mean to draw a distinction. I agree with you 100%. It goes both ways. I also hear men complaining about their crazy “baby mommas” and I feel the same way about them. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/143 "2009-04-01T04:26:15Z")
\*\*nyctea scandiaca \*\*as I recall though wasn’t there some issue with your BF and his job and missing some child support payments? Isn’t that the issue in your OP? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/144 "2009-04-01T04:26:38Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You mean she’s forced to shack up with a man who had numerous babies they couldn’t afford, who then left the state (I think) leaving the babies behind with the crazy ex-wife, etc.? She had no choices? I don’t think this is an accurate charcaterization, but the point is, she hasn’t COMPLAINED about any of those choices. > [@](#): > > It’s only the _women_ who have children who are responsible? Have you ever read single one of my posts on the responsibility that men have for their own sperm? I’ve taken a hardline stance on that in more threads than I can count. I’ve said in this thread that the fathers are still responsible and so has the OP. This is a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/145 "2009-04-01T04:28:11Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > I didn’t mean to draw a distinction. I agree with you 100%. It goes both ways. I also hear men complaining about their crazy “baby mommas” and I feel the same way about them. But you have compassion for your partner, who made an error in judgment in choosing the mother for his children. You think it’s valid to complain about it, even though you both acknowledge that he made bad choices that led to him being in this situation. Why can’t you show the same compassion to your Facebook friend? Good people make bad decisions, and it’s human nature to bitch about them. Right? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/146 "2009-04-01T04:28:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t think this is an accurate charcaterization, but the point is, she hasn’t COMPLAINED about any of those choices. Yes, she has. > [@](#): > > Have you ever read single one of my posts on the responsibility that men have for their own sperm? I’ve taken a hardline stance on that in more threads than I can count. I’ve said in this thread that the fathers are still responsible and so has the OP. This is a strawman. I’m talking about her, not you. I know nothing about you. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/147 "2009-04-01T04:30:50Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You mean she’s forced to shack up with a man who had numerous babies they couldn’t afford, who then left the state (I think) leaving the babies behind with the crazy ex-wife, etc.? She had no choices? Is this a question for me? Because what you say isn’t accurate. He was never unable to afford his kids. He supports them in a very comfortable upper-middle-class lifestyle without any financial support from the mother (i.e. she doesn’t work outside the home, and never has). As for “leaving the babies behind with the crazy ex-wife,” as I have alluded to, he is taking legal action to gain custody of the children because he feels they are not in a healthy environment. He is lucky that he has the means to afford to do this - it is very expensive. Many men wouldn’t give a fuck and would rather spend that $10,000+ on toys and gadgets rather than legal bills. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/148 "2009-04-01T04:31:14Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > She complained about her husband’s choice in the mother of his children. No she didn’t. but even if she did, the issue is HER choices, not anyone else’s. > [@](#): > > He chose to have babies with a “psycho.” The Facebook friend chose to have babies with a “loser.” Why is one situation OK to bitch about and the other isn’t? If HE bitches about his choice, he deserves limited sympathy, but that doesn’t extend to the OP. You really are reaching with this. Like I said, even if your comparison were accurate it wouldn’t invalidate anything. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/149 "2009-04-01T04:35:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You really are reaching with this. Like I said, even if your comparison were accurate it wouldn’t invalidate anything. It would, I would hope, demonstrate to the OP that she is withholding the very sympathy she wants from others, sympathy for a sucky situation where there are no good choices, only less bad ones. Situations where she could see that just because someone made a mistake in the past doesn’t mean they deserve no help or kindness in the future. Situations where some things are out of your control and too late to fix. I would have thought she could see that once it was pointed out to her. I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/150 "2009-04-01T04:36:29Z")
Reread post #145. She has compassion for her partner, who made a bad choice of co-parent, but none for the Facebook friend, who is in a similar situation. Even if Facebook friend is on welfare, I think that’s a better situation than having your kids living with a child molester chosen as a mate by your co-parent. I’m not trying to play Gotcha! with the OP. I’m saying, it’s not too hard to have compassion for people who have made mistakes. She manages it for her partner. Why not spare some for the friend? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/151 "2009-04-01T04:38:52Z")
> [@Juliefoolie](#): > > Do you really believe that the bad choices of the parents should be heaped upon the children? Huh? I never said this, did I? > [@Juliefoolie](#): > > And **nyctea scandiaca** you in particular are one Im waiting to hear from… what have you done about the poor single moms out there… have you volunteered, helped any personally improve their lot in life, etc etc…because you seem to know what everyone else should or shouldnt do… again I challenge…_What have you, personally done to reduce the number of single needy mothers in society?_ Let’s see… I’m not really sure what I should be doing to help specific people “improve their lot in life”, can you give an example? Heck, I am doing all I can to improve my own lot in life, I don’t have a lot of resources available to give to single mothers. :dubious: What I have done on a bigger scale is be extremely supportive of access to women’s health care - mainly, I feel we need to increase access to birth control for women so we can avoid these situations in the first place. I am also very supportive of any and all pro-choice candidates and have volunteered extensive on political campaigns for pro-life and pro-women’s-health candidates. Increasing access to these resources for women will go a long way to “reduce the number of single needy mothers in society,” as you said. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/152 "2009-04-01T04:45:52Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Reread post #145. She has compassion for her partner, who made a bad choice of co-parent, but none for the Facebook friend, who is in a similar situation. Even if Facebook friend is on welfare, I think that’s a better situation than having your kids living with a child molester chosen as a mate by your co-parent. > > I’m not trying to play Gotcha! with the OP. I’m saying, it’s not too hard to have compassion for people who have made mistakes. She manages it for her partner. Why not spare some for the friend? I have A LOT compassion for my SO’s children. I don’t have any compassion for my SO for having to pay child support or for having to deal with his ex’s routine crazy antics. I think he should have known early on what kind of woman he was dealing with, but he had additional children anyway. That was a very poor choice. However, I do feel compassion for him that his kids are living with a suspected child molester, and despite taking legal action, they are STILL there. I don’t think there was any way he could have foreseen that when he chose this woman to procreate with 13 years ago. And maybe I do have some compassion for the woman in the OP. I do admire her for raising the child by herself for 13 years, and he seems to be a very awesome kid, and she clearly loves him a lot. I think that’s great and I give her major kudos for that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/153 "2009-04-01T05:46:48Z")
I don’t think the two examples are comparable. I saw the OP’s concern as being for the children, not for any “woe is me” bellyaching by her husband. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/154 "2009-04-01T06:08:53Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t think the two examples are comparable. I saw the OP’s concern as being for the children, not for any “woe is me” bellyaching by her husband. The title of the thread is addressing the mother not the children, right? Although I agree that the OP seems to be concerned for the children, but she is clearly taking the woman to task for choosing an unsuitable father for her children. The OP has a boyfriend who chose an unsuitable mother for his children. Her boyfriend has shown the same “stupidity” as the woman on Facebook and the OP has chosen this “stupid” man. She can’t have it both ways. She’s chosen a man who makes bad choices in his life. So by her own standards she shouldn’t be surprised by and sort of “deserves” whatever ill behaviors he exhibits. Personally, I don’t buy it and I’m rather surprised to see this much bile from the OP as I’ve always considered her one of my favorite posters. She’s entitled to her opinion but I think she should judge her own life by the same stick she wants to use to smack those she disagrees with. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/155 "2009-04-01T06:12:51Z")
> [@](#): > > The OP has a boyfriend who chose an unsuitable mother for his children. Her boyfriend has shown the same “stupidity” as the woman on Facebook and the OP has chosen this “stupid” man. She can’t have it both ways. She’s chosen a man who makes bad choices in his life. So by her own standards she shouldn’t be surprised by and sort of “deserves” whatever ill behaviors he exhibits. She never said otherwise. Her concern is for his children. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/156 "2009-04-01T10:00:42Z")
And yet she doesn’t call him stupid, but by her own rules he is irredeemably stupid because he made a bad choice of partner years ago. In fact, he had two kids with the crazy so doesn’t that make him twice as stupid as Facebook Mum? ---
**Author:** ![SomeUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e480ec/32.png) [@SomeUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeUserName)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/157 "2009-04-01T10:05:26Z")
The one thing that sticks out is the child of Facebook mom is 14. So the person made a bad choice almost 15 years ago and it does not appear she has other children so I guess she grew up and took responsibilty for the child. The father on the other hand has not. The mistake resulted in child, I can see where that changes things a bit, but the so called damage is done and the child is fine. The topic on Facebook was the about the measly amount of child support she got but the OP turned it into a finger pointing fit about a bad choice she made years ago. I hope my “friends” don’t show up to bitch about something I did 15 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/158 "2009-04-01T10:39:42Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > Let’s see… I’m not really sure what I should be doing to help specific people “improve their lot in life”, can you give an example? Heck, I am doing all I can to improve my own lot in life, I don’t have a lot of resources available to give to single mothers. :dubious: > > What I have done on a bigger scale is be extremely supportive of access to women’s health care - mainly, I feel we need to increase access to birth control for women so we can avoid these situations in the first place. I am also very supportive of any and all pro-choice candidates and have volunteered extensive on political campaigns for pro-life and pro-women’s-health candidates. Increasing access to these resources for women will go a long way to “reduce the number of single needy mothers in society,” as you said. Thank you. That answers my question. In my opinion its fine to point fingers at people and complain about their parenting skills, paying taxes for social assistance, etc, but if you \*\*read my post #102 \*\* you will see I am challenging people to put up or shut up. Being supportive of pro-choice candidates and helping with Planned Parenthood, women’s health clinics, etc counts. Too many people I see vote against women’s reproductive freedoms AND bitch about paying taxes to support single moms on social assistance. So thank you for not being a hypocrite there. That is sincere, even if I disagree with your tone, methodology and the particularly tall equine quadruped you have perched yourself upon. And if you read my first post in this thread, (#19) you will see that yes, people can both improve their own lot in life, and still have some compassion and generosity left for others. Im on my way to work my hospital job for the next 12 hours, so this will be my last post on this until later tonight. should be fun reading when I get home… ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/159 "2009-04-01T10:57:11Z")
I agree with **Jodi** and others who said that we don’t always know what we think we know about our partners. My ex spoke so lovingly of his children. It made me want to build a family with him. I never met his children because his ex was a bitter bitch. She moved away and we couldn’t afford for him to go visit the children, or so I thought. It was YEARS after we broke up that I found out he gave up parental rights to them! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399/160 "2009-04-01T12:14:04Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I agree with **Jodi** and others who said that we don’t always know what we think we know about our partners. > > My ex spoke so lovingly of his children. It made me want to build a family with him. I never met his children because his ex was a bitter bitch. She moved away and we couldn’t afford for him to go visit the children, or so I thought. It was YEARS after we broke up that I found out he gave up parental rights to them! No, we certainly don’t. But often there are big flashing neon signs and people - and for some reason - particularly young women - choose to ignore them. “Oh, he will change!” I did. My sister did. Several of my girlfriends did. Fortunately for any potential children, none of us had kids with our flashing warning signs. And there are choices. Birth control. Abortion. Adoption. Or sucking it up. When you have kids with a guy who does wears a flashing warning sign with regards to earning a consistent living wage, you have to realize your life as a single mom is going to be a lot less pleasant than a woman who gets knocked up by someone who has a proven good income. So I have sympathy for the situation and I can completely understand how people get there. But I’ll admit I have little tolerance for the whining that goes along with “I ignored flashing warning signs.” Years ago I worked with a guy who had several (2 or 3 - can’t remember now) kids with two different women and most of his income was going towards child support. Didn’t have much sympathy for him. Had about as much for the yahoo girl in the office who dated him for three months, complained the whole time about him not being able to take her out due to his child support responsibilities, got knocked up and - yep, you guessed it - was SHOCKED that you could not get more blood out of this stone and that her child support payments from him would be insufficient to do much more than buy diapers once in a while. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-stupid-choice-with-a-stupid-person-and-youre-surprised-when-stupidity-ensues/491399.md?page=9)