Make a stupid choice with a stupid person and you're surprised when stupidity ensues?

The BBQ Pit
81

What I don’t understand is the absolute certainty – yes, bordering on sanctimony – that the woman under discussion, and others like her, knew the guy(s) was a loser before they had sex with him (them). As if most women look at someone who is at that time unemployed, lazy, heartless, avoidant, and think Mmmhmm, lay me down, baby. ISTM obviously much more likely that the woman thought she was looking at a decent prospect at the time, which is why she undertook to try to have a relationship with him. So what strikes me as extra-super-primo judgey, is evaluating the choices she made then by the information we have now. And then condemning her for them. If in fact you do NOT think or know that you have made a stupid choice, and you do NOT think or know that you were with a stupid person, then I think you have every right in the world to be very surprised when stupidity ensues.

My experience with women seeking child support, and I’ve had quite a bit, is that they do NOT tend to be the stereotypical “Welfare Queen” who’s had the fourth child with the same guy so that she can get a bigger check as she lays around sucking on the public teat. Go ahead and condemn that (fictional) woman; no doubt she deserves it. But the women I have worked with have found that they end up with a child or children with a man they believed, or at least hoped, would support those children, and have been harshly disabused of that notion. A failure to pay child support by those men has a direct negative impact on the lives of the children in question, because we are NOT talking about women with the financial ability to give their kids a great life on their own.

Child support is for the benefit of the child. If, as Dio says, “choosing to have potentially procreative sex (“protected” or not) is a choice to get pregnant” – a position I think is complete BS, BTW – then men, no less than women, are making that choice and men, no less than women, must bear responsibility for the results.

So if my sympathy has to be apportioned between the woman who is raising the kids and trying to support them (even if venting on Facebook), or the deadbeat MF who is not paying to support them – I’ll go with Facebook Mom, thanks, if for no other reason than that I don’t think we can say, 13 years on, how “stupid” she was back then.

82

If more women agreed to anal this would be a far smaller problem than it is now!

83

Sure. It’s not any less sanctimonious, but at least it’s not hypocritical. Congratulations and enjoy!

84

Between this and the Rand Rover thread, Jodi is my new hero.

85

Tell you what. I’ll start with one for you for junior modding. Don’t do this again.

Gfactor
Pit Moderator

86

Despite his junior modding, **Jimmy Joe Meager ** has a point.

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Gfactor
Pit Moderator

87

If you’re having procreative sex with someone you don’t know anything about, that’s still just as stupid as doing it with someone you know is a loser.

None of this discussion has anything to do with the right to child support. Your last paragraph above is something that I’ve said over and over again. You are attacking a position that has not been proffered here. No one is saying that the guy should have to pay. Of course he should have to pay. I’ve been as vocal as anyone on this board about the responsibility of men to take responsibility for their offspring. That has nothing to do with the discussion. My positin in this particular thread simply has to do with expressing irritation with women (or men, for that matter) who expect others to feel sympathy for their own stupid choices. Saying I think they made a stuoid choice is not the same as saying the person who made the stupid choice with them should be off the hook for his own responsibilities.

88

I dunno. She drops down a notch on my list for even participating in the Rand Rover thread.

(Only kidding, Jodi.)

89

Exactly what I was thinking. I keep hearing “but but! She didn’t know he was a loser when she let him impregnate her!! So she’s the victim!” … “She was hoping he would turn out to be a good guy!” … “But he WAS a good guy at the time, it was only later that he turned into a loser!”

For some reason these excuses don’t inspire much sympathy.

Dio is right. Nowhere did I ever say the father should not have to pay. For example:

90

Good advice, thank you for putting it so eloquently, Dio.

91

Thank you Foxy, well said.

92

You made the idiotic decision to have stupid people in your life so don’t expect me to sympathise with your sniveling and whining when it turns out they’re stupid. Loser.

Sincerely,
xcheopis,
Who has made it this far in life without having stupid friends by exercising good judgment in her choice of companions.

93

We don’t always assume this - sometimes they come right out and say so.

So sometimes it is not an assumption.

Regards,
Shodan

94

Whereas “Sure, I let some loser knock me up, but at least I was smart enough to get an abortion!” really gives a person the warm fuzzies.

95

Took you a couple of tries to figure it out, though, didn’t it?

Regards,
Shodan

96

My first husband cheated on me several times before we got married. Yet, I - foolishly - married him anyway.

I can’t say I never whine about him - at the same time if anyone who knows what happened chooses to roll their eyes while I whine I can completely understand - I was the idiot who married a guy who spent three years proving he wasn’t interested in being faithful to me. No one - including myself - was surprised when the trend held. And if I were to whine too often, my friends should tell me to put a sock in it.

Seems similar. Without absolving your child’s father of being an asshole, to spend your time whining that a guy who was a loser when you had sex remains a loser when it comes time to supporting your child is self indulgent whining. We all get to indulge in self indulgent whining on occasion - and those of us whose friends do it too often get to whine about their self indulgent whining, before we set Facebook to ignore all their updates, because unlike a child, its easy to step away from Facebook friends.

97

Are you talking to me, dear? I had a baby because I wanted her, and then I didn’t have any more because I didn’t want them. Nothing to figure out, and I don’t claim that any of those decisions makes me a smarter or better person than anyone else here.

98

Actually, it should read: “Sure, I let someone* knock me up, but at least I was responsible enough to get an abortion!”

And that statement shouldn’t give anyone warm fuzzies, unless they’re thinking about the fact that we are very lucky to have the right to make that choice.

I’m not proud, nor am I ashamed. To me, it’s just a medical procedure I underwent, for a condition that I admittedly caused by being careless, just as if I needed stitches because I sliced open my finger because I wasn’t being careful with a knife while chopping veggies.

*The guy in my case was not a loser, we were just not ready.

99

You continue to miss my point. I’m not madatchya for the abortion, I just don’t see why she should be any more ashamed of her choice than you are of yours.

I have very little patience for people who are so impressed with themselves that they can’t summon up a little “there but for the grace of…”

100

I’ve been following along with no problem up to this point, but I don’t understand this statement. Could you clarify?