# Make America Sick Again (Trump & Vaccine Refusal) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384 "2017-01-17T13:47:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/1 "2017-01-17T13:47:32Z")
So it appears that Trump is going to push the anti-vaxxer agenda. I don’t even know what to say anymore. In another thread somebody said they hoped that Trump would implement policies to make America great, is this the kind of stuff you were hoping for? > **[Donald Trump and the anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists](https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-donald-trump-anti-vaxxer-20170116-story.html)** > > I cannot possibly state strongly enough how dangerous it is that President-elect Donald Trump has embraced the notion that vaccination is the cause of autism. > **[Will Trump promote vaccine refusal? | CBC Radio](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/blog/will-trump-promote-vaccine-refusal-1.3937467)** > > A well-known U.S. vaccine sceptic has talked to incoming President Donald Trump about leading a panel on the safety of vaccines. The implications could be huge. > **[Trump Meets With Vaccine Skeptic, Discusses 'Committee on Vaccine Safety'](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/01/trump-taps-vaccine-skeptic-to-chair-committee-on-vaccine-safety/512708/)** > > The move is merely the latest in Trump’s dance with the anti-vax community.  > **[Trump’s Dangerous Support for Conspiracies About Autism and Vaccines](https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/trumps-dangerous-support-for-conspiracies-about-autism-and-vaccines)** > > Asking Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., to chair a commission on scientific integrity is like asking Ted Kaczynski to run the United States Postal Service. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/2 "2017-01-17T15:12:00Z")
He won’t, he can’t, there’s a limit. There is a limit! Has to be a limit! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/3 "2017-01-17T16:09:23Z")
As I said in a pit thread, an issue like Global Warming (That Trump also foolishly does not see as an problem) can cause death if we are not controlling emissions; however, we can prepare and prevent that issue from causing death. But the anti-vaccine position or even the \*\*fake \*\*moderate idea to “spread the vaccines” or “give the parents a choice” _ **will cause deaths** _. > **[Trump Meets with RFK Jr. To Discuss “Vaccine Safety”](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/trump-meets-with-rfk-jr-to-discuss-vaccine-safety/)** > > Trump and RFK Jr., both with anti-vaccine conspiracy beliefs, met to discuss forming a presidential panel on vaccines and autism. The exact outcome is uncertain, but the possibilities are frightening. > [@](#): > > Both Trump and RFK Jr. also advocate for a “slow vaccine” regimen. They present this as a moderate position, but it is just another anti-science position. The vaccine schedule is not arbitrary. It is evidence-based, and designed to protect children as soon as possible to prevent diseases. In fact, this has also been studied. The routine schedule has been directly compared to delayed schedules. What the scientists found is that the delayed schedules do not reduce the incidence of any diseases or disorders, but it does increase the risk of contracting vaccine-preventable diseases. This just confirms the CDC schedule. Really evil. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/4 "2017-01-17T16:23:21Z")
Moved from Elections to The Pit. [Maui] You’re welcome [/Maui] [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/5 "2017-01-17T16:34:16Z")
Let’s see… Trump does something which causes a LOT of deaths. Then mainstream media reports it. Trump tweets it is not true (what they are reporting). And his blind sheep followers believe Trump… That is until someone close to them dies, THEN they wake up! I guess we need to fix these blind sheep followers. Be ready to “rub it in their nose” when bad stuff happens. Then try to get them to read/watch mainstream media instead of FOX or RT. Teach them the error of their ways. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/6 "2017-01-17T16:57:29Z")
> [@Me\_Billy](#): > > And his blind sheep followers believe Trump… That is until someone close to them dies, THEN they wake up! > . Unfortunately, no. THEN, they blame someone else. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/7 "2017-01-17T17:35:21Z")
I was on a plane the other day, and my seatmates were a middle-aged woman and her teenaged daughter. The woman loved to talk, and when she found out that i teach college history, she launched into an anti-Trump rant. I was a bit taken aback; i’m always sort of surprised when people harangue strangers on political topics. But i was even more surprised at her last point. She said that she is always willing to look for the good in people, and she took some comfort from the fact that Trump was talking with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and was apparently a supporter of “vaccine choice.” She said, “I’m not anti-vaccine, but i think everyone has a right to choose whether or not to vaccinate.” She then launched into a diatribe about conspiracies between medical researchers and drug companies and the government, designed to maximize profit and hide the deleterious effects of vaccines from the American people. It was about then that i made excuses about needing to work, and got back to my reading. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/8 "2017-01-17T17:36:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As I said in a pit thread, an issue like Global Warming (That Trump also foolishly does not see as an problem) can cause death if we are not controlling emissions; however, we can prepare and prevent that issue from causing death. But the anti-vaccine position or even the \*\*fake \*\*moderate idea to “spread the vaccines” or “give the parents a choice” _ **will cause deaths** _. > > [Trump Meets with RFK Jr. To Discuss “Vaccine Safety” | Science-Based Medicine](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/trump-meets-with-rfk-jr-to-discuss-vaccine-safety/) > Really evil. We already “give the parents a choice”. If that is fake moderate, I presume your real moderate stance would favor abduction and strapping to a table. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/9 "2017-01-17T17:58:07Z")
Hey **Bone** , thanks! > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > We already “give the parents a choice”. If that is fake moderate, I presume your real moderate stance would favor abduction and strapping to a table. My god, what a tool. I hope you don’t breed. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/10 "2017-01-17T18:08:42Z")
I bet you’re the coolest guy in your chat room with those awesome flames. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/11 "2017-01-17T18:23:23Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > In another thread somebody said they hoped that Trump would implement policies to make America great, is this the kind of stuff you were hoping for? Many of them claimed to have voted for Trump to “punish” America for not paying attention to them, and a plague would hurt lots of people so yes; they probably _love_ the idea of a new Black Death style epidemic. Anything that hurts and kills people, Trump supporters love. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/12 "2017-01-17T19:08:36Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > We already “give the parents a choice”. If that is fake moderate, I presume your real moderate stance would favor abduction and strapping to a table. Nope, you are using the \*\*crank \*\*definition of parental choice. In reality that should be only for parents that have reasonable reasons to oppose vaccination, like a history of allergies to an specific type of vaccine. Virtually all other reasons why not to vaccinate or change schedules are just coming from cranks and are abused by some groups that will be now more emboldened thanks to the unscientific politicians. (Right now most of them are Republicans) > **[Withholding vaccinations is a form of child abuse](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2015/02/06/withholding-vaccinations-is-a-form-of-child-abuse/)** > > Anti-vaccination cranks talk about “parental rights,” but parents don’t have the right to endanger their own kids. > [@](#): > > Let us cut through all this earnest talk about parental rights and government mandates. Let us quit breathing fake zombie life into the illusory “debate” over whether routine childhood immunizations are a good idea. > > This issue, which represents a ludicrous effort to throw one of the greatest achievements in human history down a sewer hole, is not a “debate.” Not unless you’re in favor of child abuse. > > Two GOP presidential hopefuls may have finally exposed the absolute craziness of anti-vax extremists through a ham-fisted effort to pander to their delusions. Remarks this week by Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, seemingly in support of parents who refuse to immunize their kids, dovetailed with a 14-state outbreak of measles and abruptly seized our ever-capricious attention. > > Christie, who said “parents need to have some measure of choice” in whether to get their kids vaccinated, later crab-walked — a little — and followed up by saying “there is no question” that children should be immunized. Paul backed off a little, too, but not until after he had sucked up outrageously to the I-hate-the-gubmint lobby by hinting at a nonexistent link between vaccinations and mental disorders and saying: “The state doesn’t own your children. Parents own the children.” > > No, they do not. We do not “own” human beings in our society. Endangering your child is not the same as leaving your bicycle out in the rain. > [@](#): > > But one of the many thankless tasks our government must carry out is protecting the children of dumb or dangerous people from parental folly. It would be nice if there were no need for government to require car seats, education, decent food and shelter for dependent children. It would be great if all parents were so sensible and responsible that these measures could be voluntary. > > Sadly, they can’t be. Sometimes the government has to enforce civilized standards of child welfare. That includes making sure they’re protected against dangerous infections and diseases. > > Vaccines provide that protection. And withholding them from children isn’t just irresponsibility — it’s abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/13 "2017-01-17T19:15:57Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > We already “give the parents a choice”. If that is fake moderate, I presume your real moderate stance would favor abduction and strapping to a table. This is unusually stupid even for you, **Will**. No one is forcibly vaccinated, nor does anyone (except maybe a handful of kooks/trolls) advocate such a thing. The “moderate” position in the U.S. has long been to give antivax parents access to dubious religious or “philosophical” exemptions from having their children vaccinated before being admitted to public schools. Sadly ☹ this “moderate” stance has been whittled down in California to antivax parents’ getting the choice to homeschool their kids if they don’t qualify for medical exemptions. In the event of additional serious preventable disease outbreaks around the country, expect that increasingly to be the default “moderate” position. I understand the appeal of “vaccine choice” to the I-don’t-wanna-and-you-can’t-make-me sort of libertarians, which is most of them. > [@](#): > > In another thread somebody said they hoped that Trump would implement policies to make America great For some reason I read this as "they hoped that Trump would implement _placebos_ to make America great. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/14 "2017-01-17T19:29:37Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > So it appears that Trump is going to push the anti-vaxxer agenda. I don’t even know what to say anymore. In another thread somebody said they hoped that Trump would implement policies to make America great, is this the kind of stuff you were hoping for? > > [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-donald-trump-anti-vaxxer-20170116-story.html](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-donald-trump-anti-vaxxer-20170116-story.html) > > [Will Trump promote vaccine refusal? | CBC Radio](http://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/blog/will-trump-promote-vaccine-refusal-1.3937467) > > [Trump Meets With Vaccine Skeptic, Discusses 'Committee on Vaccine Safety' - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/01/trump-taps-vaccine-skeptic-to-chair-committee-on-vaccine-safety/512708/) > > [Trump’s Dangerous Support for Conspiracies About Autism and Vaccines | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/trumps-dangerous-support-for-conspiracies-about-autism-and-vaccines) He is just following his orders from Moscow. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/15 "2017-01-17T19:36:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > He is just following his orders from Moscow. Even if one is reasonable and does think that that is hyperbole, The Kremlin really does not need to send spies to the USA to undermine it, just help the USA elect ignorant leaders and then eventually the opponents of the USA will just need to kick on the door and the then whole shoddy structure will fall down. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/16 "2017-01-17T19:40:04Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Unfortunately, no. > > THEN, they blame someone else. You beat to this ! I was going to say that too. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/17 "2017-01-18T15:16:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nope, you are using the \*\*crank \*\*definition of parental choice. In reality that should be only for parents that have reasonable reasons to oppose vaccination, like a history of allergies to an specific type of vaccine. > > Virtually all other reasons why not to vaccinate or change schedules are just coming from cranks and are abused by some groups that will be now more emboldened thanks to the unscientific politicians. (Right now most of them are Republicans) > > [Withholding vaccinations is a form of child abuse](http://www.dallasnews.com/news/news/2015/02/05/withholding-vaccinations-is-a-form-of-child-abuse) No. My definition of parental choice is the prevailing status quo in parts of the country I’m familiar with. Parents do not have to have their child vaccinated. If you want to take that option away, that puts you on the extreme authoritarian fringes on this issue. Wrong fringes. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > This is unusually stupid even for you, **Will**. > > No one is forcibly vaccinated, nor does anyone (except maybe a handful of kooks/trolls) advocate such a thing. The “moderate” position in the U.S. has long been to give antivax parents access to dubious religious or “philosophical” exemptions from having their children vaccinated before being admitted to public schools. Sadly ☹ this “moderate” stance has been whittled down in California to antivax parents’ getting the choice to homeschool their kids if they don’t qualify for medical exemptions. In the event of additional serious preventable disease outbreaks around the country, expect that increasingly to be the default “moderate” position. > > I understand the appeal of “vaccine choice” to the I-don’t-wanna-and-you-can’t-make-me sort of libertarians, which is most of them.For some reason I read this as "they hoped that Trump would implement _placebos_ to make America great. 🙂 You are upset that parents can choose to not vaccinate, yet you claim nobody wants to forcibly vaccinate. Confused thinking. What would you like to happen if parents refuse to have their children vaccinated? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/18 "2017-01-18T15:22:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > No. > > My definition of parental choice is the prevailing status quo in parts of the country I’m familiar with. Parents do not have to have their child vaccinated. If you want to take that option away, that puts you on the extreme authoritarian fringes on this issue. Wrong fringes. > > You are upset that parents can choose to not vaccinate, yet you claim nobody wants to > forcibly vaccinate. Confused thinking. What would you like to happen if parents refuse to have their children vaccinated? Their children should not be allowed to attend public schools. You may have the right to not have your children vaccinated; you do NOT have the right to endanger others because of your stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/19 "2017-01-18T15:33:14Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Their children should not be allowed to attend public schools. You may have the right to not have your children vaccinated; you do NOT have the right to endanger others because of your stupidity. Or daycare, or sports, or the park, or birthday parties. Really, anything that would have your child coming into contact with any other children. Church I suppose is okay, as long as all members agree, and there is a big sign out front that says, “Our children have not been vaccinated.” The CDC will visit from time to time when your children start dying from preventable diseases, they have not gotten all that much data on many of these in modern times, (as vaccines have prevented them from making outbreaks in first world nations) so your child’s sacrifice will at least do a small amount of good. Oh, and if you choose not to vaccinate, whether it be universal healthcare, or insurance, any complications that arise from preventable illness should not be socialized, and the parents who made the decision can bear the cost of it. So, if you are willing to lock you child up, and not allow them to socialize with their peers, and not receive medical treatment when they do get sick, then you can skip the vaccines. Now, it is to wonder if it is ethical to isolate a child like that, but who are we to dictate what choices parents make about their children? It is a choice, if you choose to receive the benefits from society, there are some small obligations that are asked of you. If you refuse those small obligations, then society has no reason to give you (and your child) those benefits. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384/20 "2017-01-18T15:47:24Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Their children should not be allowed to attend public schools. You may have the right to not have your children vaccinated; you do NOT have the right to endanger others because of your stupidity. I agree that schools should be allowed to require vaccines to attend. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-america-sick-again-trump-vaccine-refusal/777384.md?page=2)