# Make Drugs Legal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2001, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200 "2001-09-07T04:55:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/21 "2001-09-07T17:17:19Z")
horhay, Thanks. Well said. Saves me the pain of having to respond to that moron’s close-minded imbecility. ---
**Author:** ![PeeQueue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@PeeQueue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeeQueue)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/22 "2001-09-07T17:27:28Z")
LOL! I didn’t know which to laugh louder at: Doggus’ post, or horhay’s reply. Oh, just to stay on track with the OP: I’m sorta on the fence. Maybe something along the lines of: 1. Draw a line between addictive drugs and non-addictive drugs. 2. Make sure you have good test results to confirm which is which. 3. Non-addictive = legal (why would anyone be against this?!?) 4. Addictive = prescription only. Regards, Peter ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Billy)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/23 "2001-09-07T17:39:33Z")
This seems not to have worked out so well as a Great Debate, since I suppose we now have come to the point of arguing over the following resolution: Resolved: Various people may or may not be idiots and all of them can go fuck off for one reason or another. Disappointing. I thought this was a pretty interesting question. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Billy)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/24 "2001-09-07T17:41:16Z")
Never mind. I guess there’s more coming. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/25 "2001-09-07T17:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PeeQueue \* > > 1. Draw a line between addictive drugs and non-addictive drugs. > 2. Make sure you have good test results to confirm which is which. > 3. Non-addictive = legal (why would anyone be against this?!?) > 4. Addictive = prescription only. Addictive physically or mentally?–Or both? I think that is a tough standard, frankly, as addiction itself is able to be avoided by proper use. Or so it would seem, having friends who experimented with both cocaine and heroin, none of whom are addicted today. None of whom, in fact, use it today. Also, you realize that LSD would certainly fall under the “legal” category, and LSD is a drug which people either seem to love or hate. I fall on the love side, but others like those stories about people trying to fly. just thought I’d mention it as I’ve seen quite a few people wimp out over strong hallucinogens being made legal. ---
**Author:** ![Acco40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Acco40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acco40)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/26 "2001-09-07T17:58:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **horhay** _: > > Drug use is NOT bad. Not bad? Versus what? Oh, come on **Horhay**. I’ve seen plenty of people use, and later, _abuse_ drugs. Some, no… _most_ are highly addictive. And yes, even the “not addictive” ones can act as “gateway” drugs. I suppose a line can be drawn between recreational drug use and hardcore, addict drug use. _You_ had better make that distinction too —\> I have yet to meet a “recreational” heroine user. You can’t lump all drugs together. And what happens when the abuser’s money runs out? Let’s see. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **horhay** _: > > The hope would be that they would 1) be able to go somewhere for help more easily, and 2) the cost of drugs would be low enough that they could get the money for them through legal ways. **Horhay** : The _current_ system is underfunded and maxed-out. What happens when the abuser population expands? Furthermore, the cost of drugs (and any other commodity in a market) is determined by demand. Obviously, the demand (and the price) of drugs will rise quickly. How will these new addicts find the money for their new found _addiction_? They will rob you and me… but it won’t be anything personal. They just need the cash to get high! > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Horhay** _: > > Who are we to protect anyone from themselves? Why don’t we say people with diabetes in their family can’t eat sugar? This is a closed system. Also, this example is not applicable to this discussion. The diabetes sufferer doesn’t affect his family negatively by abusing himself. The drug abuser without a fix roaming around on the street _will affect_ others negatively… s/he operates in an open system. I liken the legalization of drugs to random gun drops by the government. Yes. As if the government drove around in big trucks and dumped loaded guns on each corner. _You_ might say “I’m not tempted to pick one up.” And that would be fine. But not everyone would be like you. Some people _would_, and doubtlessly, there would be more gun-related problems. Just like if there are more drugs out there, _you_ may use them with discretion, but _others may not have that discretion._ There will be more drug-related problems. BTW, I’ve done recreational drugs, and _I_ wouldn’t have a problem if they legalized them. _You_ might though, and so that risk is sufficiently high enough not to risk the status quo in drug policy. And **horhay** , why not just be high on life? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/27 "2001-09-07T18:26:40Z")
Acco40 said:"…even the “not addictive” ones can act as “gateway” drugs." This is the argument typically put forward as a reason not to legalize marijuana, which most people acknowledge is pretty harmless (compared to alcohol,say). Frankly, it makes me want to scream. It’s just bad logic. Just because event A happens before event B, it does not follow that A caused B. If a person wishes to experiment with mind-altering chemicals, s/he will probably do so. It often happens that the first one they experiment with is marijuana, because that is the most common and easily found of illegal substances. They may then go on to try cocaine, for example, but it does not mean that using marijuana MADE them try cocaine. IMHO, the “gateway drug” theory is a fallacy. As for funding, it’s simple: use revenues from taxes on drugs to fund drug treatment and education programs. If that’s not sufficient (I imagine it would be), use some of the millions of dollars we would save on incarcerating people for victimless crimes. ---
**Author:** ![PeeQueue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@PeeQueue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeeQueue)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/28 "2001-09-07T18:34:25Z")
erislover, I’m not sure what you mean by mentally - am I addicted to my finger nails? I seem to bite them all the time… What I mean by addicted is that people experience real and reproducible withdrawal effects. Obviously someone would have to come and draw the line somewhere, and I don’t pretend to know where the line should be yet. However, note that I didn’t say addictive drugs should be illegal. Those who already have, or have somehow illegally developed, an addiction should be able to obtain them legally via prescription. Of course LSD should be legal. I have never seen any evidence that it was addictive. Of course, if people wanted laws against “public tripping” that’s a different story. Acco, Comparing legalizing drugs with government gun drops is not appropriate. What would be appropriate would be comparing legalizing drugs with legalizing guns (which, of course, is already the case). No one is suggesting the government just drop piles of drugs on street corners. (Well, maybe some people are, but I’m not 😉 ) PeeQueue ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/29 "2001-09-07T18:40:10Z")
Furthermore,Acco, Legalizing drugs is in no way similar to “random gun drops”. First of all, no one is suggesting that drugs be given away free. Secondly, drugs ARE NOT WEAPONS. Yes, they are bad for you, but their use harms no one but the user. Yes, some drug users commit crimes to finance their habit, but this is a seperate issue. If someone commits robbery, for example, of course they should be punished, but their motivation for the crime is not a factor. Suppose someone robs a bank to buy a diamond ring for their sweetheart, should we make marriage illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Acco40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Acco40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acco40)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/30 "2001-09-07T18:40:21Z")
**PeeQueue** : Alright, the guns bit was a little off. My point was that by increasing the amount of drugs out there floating around, more people (especially kids) are bound to get their hands on them. (Not to mention have adults buy the drugs for them… the black market opportunities would be limitless.) ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/31 "2001-09-07T18:45:58Z")
Oh, PeeQueue made my point about the guns while I was composing. Maybe I can get this one in first: Acco, do you currently know of a “limitless black market” of adults buying alcohol for kids? Of course not. The profit margin is too low and the risks are too great. It would be the same with other legal drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/32 "2001-09-07T18:50:47Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Scientologist_: > 7. Allow for dry counties/cities/states. Some people don’t want this stuff in their back yards, leave them free to live their lives the way they like. So instead of a drug war between the US and Columbia, we’ll have one between Kentucky and Tennessee. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by doggus_: > > Individuals that want to legalize drugs have one or more of these things in common: > > 1. They are idiots. > 2. They are potheads. > 3. They have no experience in the crime and punishment or treatment acts of society. > 4. They are broke. > 5. They have been busted. These are esentially personal attacks against anybody who has posted in this thread in favor of legalization, and adds nothing to the discussion. > [@](#): > > People that can get drugs without a problem don’t complain about their legalization. What is your evidence here- you and a couple of your friends? Are you saying that people with connections to drug suppliers have no interest in lower prices or fewer inner city children killed each year? > [@](#): > > Murder is bad. Lots of people go to jail for murder. Our court system is bogged down with appeals from murderers. I got an idea. Just legalize murder. I guess you missed the concept of a victimless crime in previous posts. Do you posit that murder is a victimless crime? > [@](#): > > The reason drugs are illegal is because we have to protect users from themselves. Don’t bother disagreeing with me. You might be able to do drugs without a problem. I think you just disagreed with yourself. Although I am already quite soft on the idea, there are a few things that would need to happen before I would really begin to favor legalization, and **erislover’s** conditions are a good place to start. Along with serious penalties for violations, I’d like to see employers maintain their drug screening standards, and maybe even tighten them a bit. This helps responsible people stay that way, knowing that they stand to lose their jobs if significant levels of mind-altering substances were found in their urine. Would this result in more people being fired from their jobs for smoking a few joints? I think not for the following reason: With drugs being legalized, we can assume more people would be doing them (at least experimentally & occasionally), employers would soon find it harder & harder to get employees who tested 100% clean. They would therefore have to start being a little more lenient in terms of how much of a given substance needs to be detected in your urine before you get (first) a warning, (second) a suspension, or (finally) fired. I’d also like to see legislation that permits a person’s wages to be garnished to cover medical (and other) expenses resulting from drug-related injuries. If a stoned person hits a school bus, he’s got 30 emergency room visits to pay for in addition to a downed traffic light & busted up school bus. Problem: Drugs as retail commodities would not seem to abide by the laws of supply and demand as we know them. If cost goes up, many people are still addicted and therefore demand wouldn’t necessarily go down. There would still be a black market for low cost (and materially inferior)alternatives. Lastly, educate children about the Russian Roulette risk of careless drug use, if possible with a real gun, real bullet & life-like manequin filled with some substance resembling blood under pressure. First impressions are lasting impressions. ---
**Author:** ![Acco40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Acco40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acco40)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/33 "2001-09-07T18:52:22Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Tapswiller** _: > > Acco, do you currently know of a “limitless black market” of adults buying alcohol for kids? I said “opportunity” for a limitless black market. > [@](#): > > It would be the same with other legal drugs. That in itself is a fairly big assumption, nyet? ---
**Author:** ![PeeQueue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@PeeQueue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeeQueue)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/34 "2001-09-07T18:52:24Z")
Acco, OK, I get your point. I’m not sure I agree that there would be more out there. There is an argument to be made that over time, if legal drugs could be bought, people would stop buying them from illegal sources and those sources would go out of business. The reason I lean towards legalization is : 1. Neither side has convinced me they know what will happen to society if they are legalized. 2. I don’t see an intrinsic “badness” in them. 3. I believe adults should make their own decisions. I will probably always be “leaning, but not sure” because I don’t think anyone will ever be able to do 1. PeeQueue ---
**Author:** ![Acco40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Acco40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acco40)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/35 "2001-09-07T18:58:58Z")
**PeeQueue** : Funny enough, but I too agree with each and every word of your last post… 🙂 However, realistically speaking, the legalization of drugs (by the methodology outlined above) wouldn’t work in practice… so why consider it? ---
**Author:** ![doggus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3be4f8/32.png) [@doggus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doggus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/36 "2001-09-07T19:03:18Z")
Tapswiller, Two quick points: An extremely small amount of people that do hard drugs started with hard drugs. They start with pot. Sorry to deflate your fallacy. Scientific study has labeled it a gateway drug, not a big group of Soccer Moms. Why would we need to fund treatment programs with taxes? We wouldn’t need them if drugs were regulated, right? There wouldn’t be any addicts! Yea! The burden of proof is on you guys for this legalization thing. And you’re coming pretty weak. Again, I ask, why would the recreational drug user want the government and corporations involved in the sale of recreational drugs? Just keep scoring from your contact. Why would a corporate dealer operate any differently than a street dealer? A corporation is going to give you cheap drugs and your government is going to give you treatment for free why? Because they care. Get a grip. Why do you want more middle men involved? Your idyllic dream can be shot down for so many reasons. Here’s another: Controlled Substances require larger doses to produce the same effect in a user. How do you plan to accommodate for this? ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/37 "2001-09-07T19:07:29Z")
Acco, Granted, that was an assumption. I ammend my statement to “IMO, it would likely be the same…” Also to quote my earlier post:“3. It’s a whole lot easier for kids to get marijuana or ecstasy or whatever than it is for them to get alcohol. Why? Your local street dealer typically does not ask for ID. Liquor stores do.” I’m not saying kids using drugs would not still be a problem. I’m saying it would (probably) be LESS of a problem than it is now. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/38 "2001-09-07T19:10:06Z")
**doggus** - the problem with the ‘gateway’ issue isn’t solved by your statement ‘hard drug users first used mj’. I"d suspect all hard drug users also ‘used’ milk before the mj, right? In other words, you have to demonstrate not only the coexistance of data, but the correlation (did a **cause** b, not did a preceed b) (and this from some one who’s not ever been a fan of smokin’ dope etc, works w/offenders, isn’t convinced that legalization is the answer, sure is convicened that the current WOD as practiced isn’t the correct solution either). ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/39 "2001-09-07T19:13:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by doggus \* > I’ll try to keep this short. You cannot legalize drugs. The drug user is not an individual that says, “I can afford drugs now, but when I have no money, I guess I’ll just have to stop using drugs.” > > An addicted drug user, which you will be producing wholesale, will do anything in their power do get drugs. > ANYTHING. Believe me, I’ve worked with addicts for years. > They steal, kill, swindle, beg, and sell themselves on the street for drugs. And if, when drugs are legalized, drugs cost approximately 1/20 of their current cost, such conduct by drug addicts will be unnecessary. See [http://www.economist.com](http://www.economist.com) for more details. And, of course, this ignores two factors: First, the large majority of illegal drug users are **not** addicted. The highest rates of dependence are for users of opiates, and that figure is 30-35%. Addiction rates for all other illegal drugs are considerably lower. Second, addictive drugs, if legal and affordable, do not cause crime to increase. The dependence rate for nicotine is approximately 80% of users, but when was the last time you read about a cigarette-inspired crime spree? > [@](#): > > Individuals that want to legalize drugs have one or more of these things in common: > > 1. They are idiots. > 2. They are potheads. > 3. They have no experience in the crime and punishment or treatment acts of society. > 4. They are broke. > 5. They have been busted. Hmmm. As for myself: 1. You have to judge for yourself, but I don’t think so, and neither does my employer; 2. Nope. 3. As both an attorney and someone who has worked in the mental health, addiction, and legal profession, I would have to say you are incorrect. But thanks for the overgeneralization! 4. Going on IRS figures, my income, which this year will be approximately $214,000, exclusive of my (damn stock market) relatively minimal investment earning, I would say the odds are considerable that my income is higher than yours; and 5. My encounters with the authorities consist of one speeding ticket, 4 traffic tickets, and one citation for wasting gasoline (gotta love Montana’s traffic laws). Any other idiocies you wish to express? > [@](#): > > People that can get drugs without a problem don’t complain about their legalization. Bah!! I can get drugs whenever I choose - I live in New York. > [@](#): > > Drug related crime is not the fault of “The Man.” If you make them legal, you don’t eliminate the problem, you just legalize the problem. Have your heard of “economics”? Have you heard of “Prohibition”? Criminalization increases both cost to the consumer and profits for the supplier. Were drugs legal, their costs would plumment. This is demonstrated by our experience with Prohibition. Prohibition _made_ the Mafia. After Prohibition, the Mafia stopped smuggling booze. Why? The Mafia couldn’t compete on price with legal suppliers of booze. [QUOTE] Murder is bad. Lots of people go to jail for murder. Our court system is bogged down with appeals from murderers. I got an idea. Just legalize murder. [/QUOTE[ Murder affects other people (i.e., the victim). Drug use does not. If a person commits murder while on drugs, the option is to charge the perpetrator with the murder, a la crimes committed while drunk. > [@](#): > > The reason drugs are illegal is because we have to protect users from themselves. Don’t bother disagreeing with me. Oh, I get it. You say it, so we can’t disagree. Makes debate a lot easier – thanks! One question: if 30-35% of opiate users are addicted, it means that 65-70% of opiate users are **not** addicted. What, exactly, are we proctecting the non-addicted population of opiate users from? > [@](#): > > You might be able to do drugs without a problem. Kudos to you. Unfortunately, you are a member of a society that doesn’t wish to harbor junkies and be the unwitting victims of drug related crime. It’s bad enough as it is. It is crystal-clear that drug-related crime is caused by the high cost of drugs created by criminalization. Yes, a junkie with a $500 a day addiction will very likely turn to crime to support that addiction. But if that junkie can get the same amount of drugs for $25 a day (the likely price were drugs legalized, see [http://www.economist.com](http://www.economist.com) ), would you agree that drug-related crimes would go down? > [@](#): > > Besides, you want to leave your joins in the hands of Corporate America? Well, I’m not a druggie, but Ise likes my beer. I haven’t had a great cause for complaint about the product Anheiser [sp?]-Busch turns out, though admittedle, I’m more partial to stout. [QUOTEWhen crime escalates, the price will too. When deaths escalate, the price will too. When the governments realizes the money to be made and taxes go up, the price will too.[/QUOTE] Please re-take Microeconomics 101. Please also take American History 305, which discusses the effect of Prohibition and the repeal of Prohibition. > [@](#): > > And most importantantly, when demand goes up, the price will too. Again, I refer you to Microeconimics 101. Personal computers are more popular today than ever. Yet, remarkably, I just purchased a much more powerful computer than my last one, for $1,300 less than I spent on my old computer. Why is that? Oh yeah, supply went up in the interim. > [@](#): > > The problem is, you don’t want the responsibility of monitoring the use, you just want to smoke bud on the street. Well actually, no. What has legalization got to do with monitoring the use? In fact, if drugs were legalized, monitoring use would be _easier_. The government could test for purity and quality, and, of course, if we wish to impose limitations on sales (to minors, criminals, etc.), the sellers of drugs would have more incentive to comply - with a legal market, why sell to the illegal purchasers?) > [@](#): > > And forgive my language, but you can fuck off if you’re going to come back at me with Amsterdam. Thanks again for cutting off the debate. Not to be impertinent, Sir, but is it possible to draw conclusion from the fact that Dutch society has not imploded may mean that legalization won’t destroy American society? Sua ---
**Author:** ![doggus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3be4f8/32.png) [@doggus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doggus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200/40 "2001-09-07T19:19:58Z")
I agree with you wring: God forbid the status quo would be the best way to go about things. It’s terrible. Which is another reason that drugs will not be legalized in this country. It’s too profitable for this country to wage the war. Too many jobs involved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-drugs-legal/80200.md?page=3)