# Make it illegal for gun companies to promote their products in movies and TV shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712 "2022-06-05T17:43:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/21 "2022-06-06T01:17:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So far, although we have seen a company or two that paid to have it’s firearm featured in a War film (which of course, will pretty much have to show quite a few guns), do we have any examples of a company that actually paid to “promote gun culture”? A film is part of culture. A film with guns that are used by the protagonists to achieve their goals, goals with which the audience agrees, is part of gun culture. I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/22 "2022-06-06T02:07:23Z")
so, _Saving Private Ryan_ is “gun culture”??? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/23 "2022-06-06T02:26:41Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > This ban would be a violation of the 1st Amendment. Is this correct? Aren’t there already various advertising restrictions tied to alcohol and tobacco? How come the 1st doesn’t apply to them? > [@Lumpy](#): > > Offhand I can’t think of any movie or television show that prominently identified a firearm as e.g. a Smith & Wesson. Bond movies frequently identify his weapon as a Walther PPK. stated above, they are paid to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/24 "2022-06-06T02:46:08Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Do you think documentaries about school shootings are useless unless they also serve as an ad for the gun company responsible? I think I’d have a hard time trusting any documentary that couldn’t mention a basic fact about an event. The documentary _Kalashnikov,_ released in 2020, about the inventor of the AK-47 and other firearms would be very difficult to tell without mentioning the AK-47. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Is this correct? Aren’t there already various advertising restrictions tied to alcohol and tobacco? How come the 1st doesn’t apply to them? Babale said that they’d ban any mention of a real life firearm in motion pictures which is a little more restrictive than the current tobacco ban. And while I’m not lawyer or constitutional scholar, I do believe there’s a big difference between commercial and political speech. Making it illegal for gun manufacturers to pay film studios to feature their products is a bit different from telling film producers they can’t mention any real life gun product in their film. It’s a restriction on political speech. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/25 "2022-06-06T02:59:31Z")
Indeed… what if there’s no _placement_? What if the filmmaker just says, well, this film involves the NYPD in 2018 and the NYPD service firearm of 2018 is a Glock 17 so the star will be shown using a Glock 17 (or lookalike)? BTW and this has been brought up before, you can always do a film featuring gunplay where you just use “generic guns” that only the biggest geekboy freeze-framing on an HD screen will be able to name the maker or point out are mere “stage” guns. And both AR15 or AKM pattern rifles are long ago out of patent, so there’s a hundred makers from which the studio could buy something the average layman can’t tell apart from the OG GI version of either, and they would not need to mention or display what maker or model it is. (aside) > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Actually, a [couple](https://brandsandfilms.com/2012/11/product-placement-in-pictures-skyfall/) of [sites](https://blog.hollywoodbranded.com/blog/james-bond-product-placement-the-definitive-timeline-of-brands-in-bond) say yes. Looking at both those sites I observe though that they mention brands that appear but not details of actual placement payment BY Walther. Heck, the PPK was in the _book_ canon of Bond before it became a hit movie series. Now, surely, once it became a series of big worldwide hits, ya betcha some contracts were negotiated so things could stay smooth between companies. But the Bond series is kind of a mixed oddball here – in the early books there was a lot of international brand name dropping just as a way for Fleming to signal worldly sophistication to the mass readership (and that reminds us of a time when ordering Gordon’s gin and Smirnoff vodka [the original spirits in the Vesper-tini] was considered sophisticated, vis-a-vis Calvert or Seagram’s or whatever rail crap your local bar had). As the movies became hits you did begin getting proper paid product placement. I also notice one of the pages puzzlingly points to _Smith & Wesson_ as a product placement in _Dr. No_, when the brand is mentioned only once in passing in the context of its wielder’s failure, while totally obviating the glowing review of the PPK at the start of the film that sets the stage for 60 years. (/aside) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/26 "2022-06-06T03:01:33Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Offhand I can’t think of any movie or television show that prominently identified a firearm as e.g. a Smith & Wesson. [We’re not going to let you just walk out of here!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61rEFiKDuBQ) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/27 "2022-06-06T03:26:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > How about taking a page from the anti-tobacco movement? Ban product placement of guns in movies, television and video games. Ban gun companies from sponsoring events like music concerts. It’s an interesting idea but do you have any real examples of product placement? Otherwise it’s going to fall into the category of security theater. Because I don’t think there’s any link to the gun used and the intent of the killer. But lets extend the thought out a bit. What if violence itself was addressed in media portrayal. Cigarettes are pretty much gone in TV portrayal. what if guns were removed from TV in the same manner. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/28 "2022-06-06T08:07:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Do you think documentaries about school shootings are useless unless they also serve as an ad for the gun company responsible? Are you defining any mention of a specific type of gun as an “ad?” Because that seems overbroad. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/29 "2022-06-06T09:08:26Z")
I have a bigger problem with politicians pocketing millions in donations from the NRA and gun manufacturers than film producers. As I say, media glorifying guns exists everywhere. But politicians trying every rhetorical trick to shill for the gun companies and ensure teens can buy assault rifles is a uniquely american thing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/30 "2022-06-06T15:49:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Are you defining any mention of a specific type of gun as an “ad?” Because that seems overbroad. Nope, and I certainly think that documentaries should be allowed to discuss guns even if we put limits on works of fiction glorifying them. But the person I was responding to seemed to struggle with such “nuance” so I didn’t get into it. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/31 "2022-06-06T16:07:22Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I have a bigger problem with politicians pocketing millions in donations from the NRA and gun manufacturers than film producers. > As I say, media glorifying guns exists everywhere. But politicians trying every rhetorical trick to shill for the gun companies and ensure teens can buy assault rifles is a uniquely american thing. “Teens” includes eighteen and nineteen, who are considered legal adults in many states. This imho is emblematic of the juvenilization of American society, where seventeen year-old gang members murdering each other are referred to as “children”. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/32 "2022-06-06T16:21:25Z")
The constitutionality of such bans is questionable, and guns have much larger popular support than tobacco does, so I’d expect such a ban to be struck down by the courts, if it didn’t just get repealed the next time the Republican party is in power. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/33 "2022-06-06T16:26:58Z")
It may be worth noting that the restrictions on tobacco advertising were achieved via a “voluntary” settlement with the tobacco companies: > **[Homepage - Freedom Forum](https://www.freedomforum.org/)** > > The Freedom Forum’s mission is to foster First Amendment freedoms for all. [I think we’re still in Fair Use territory ??] > [@](#): > > **Master Settlement Agreement** > The culmination of the states’ efforts resulted in a 1998 settlement agreement involving more than 46 states and the six largest tobacco companies — Brown & Williamson Tobacco Corp., Lorillard Tobacco, Philip Morris Companies Inc., R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co., Commonwealth Tobacco and Liggett & Myers Tobacco Co. Under this settlement, called the Master Settlement Agreement, the parties agreed to settle nearly all litigation between the parties. > > In agreeing to the settlement, the tobacco companies placed many restrictions on the marketing and advertising of tobacco products. Some of these self-imposed advertising restrictions include: > > - Tobacco companies cannot use cartoon characters, such as “Joe Camel,” to advertise their products. > - Tobacco companies cannot target youth in the advertising, promotion or marketing of tobacco products. > - Tobacco companies cannot sponsor concerts or other events with significant youth audiences, including team sporting events, such as football games. > - Tobacco brand names cannot be advertised at stadiums and arenas. > > Those who wish to curtail tobacco advertising to children lauded the Master Settlement Agreement. Robert Kline, a staff attorney with the Boston-based Tobacco Control Resource Center at Northeastern University, says that “the tobacco industry’s voluntary giving up of advertising rights is a benefit to society” because fewer children will see tobacco ads. > > But some believe that the restrictions, if they came in the form of legislation as opposed to a voluntary settlement, would be unconstitutional. “Many of the restrictions on advertising included in the settlement agreement could not be imposed legislatively because they would violate the First Amendment,” says Richard Samp, chief counsel of the Washington Legal Foundation. One presumes a similar deal would have to be made in the OP in order for it to pass 1stA muster. Which would present challenges all of its own, to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/34 "2022-06-06T16:30:34Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > “Teens” includes eighteen and nineteen, who are considered legal adults in many states. This imho is emblematic of the juvenilization of American society, where seventeen year-old gang members murdering each other are referred to as “children”. I didn’t use the word “children” though, I accurately used the word “teens”. And it is quite consistent with, say, the prohibition on drinking before 21. The point being that even if you’re considered an adult your cohort is considered too high a risk (e.g. for drink driving) for society at this time. Full disclosure: I’m not necessarily in favor of the drinking age being as high as 21 but I am in favor of the age of adulthood – which remember is arbitrary – varying slightly for different activities in recognition of how humans develop and the relative risks for society. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/35 "2022-06-06T16:36:00Z")
The age of adulthood depends on whether the purpose is for rights, or for punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/36 "2022-06-06T16:44:55Z")
Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/37 "2022-06-06T19:12:28Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Is this correct? Aren’t there already various advertising restrictions tied to alcohol and tobacco? How come the 1st doesn’t apply to them? The Feds can restrict broadcast TV and radio. But most of the restrictions came from a series of lawsuits etc, after it was found that Big Tobacco knowingly and willfully knew and concealed that fact that smoking causes lung cancer. So, to avoid some of the worst penalties, the Tobacco companies agreed to some concessions. > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > It may be worth noting that the restrictions on tobacco advertising were achieved via a “voluntary” settlement with the tobacco companies: Right. > [@Mijin](#): > > I have a bigger problem with politicians pocketing millions in donations from the NRA and gun manufacturers than film producers. IIRC the Gun lobby is something like down in the 100’s of lobbies that donate the most. Not in the top 20, in any case- > **[Top Spenders](https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders)** > > US Chamber of Commerce topped the list of lobbying clients in 2023, spending $49,970,000. See the top 20 clients. Pharma and Medicine are up there. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/38 "2022-06-06T19:18:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > IIRC the Gun lobby is something like down in the 100’s of lobbies that donate the most. Not in the top 20, in any case- Sure, and they are _all_ a problem IMO. I think this kind of legalized bribery is foundational to many of the issues that America currently faces, and I am a supporter of the Wolf PAC amendment (or something like it). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/39 "2022-06-06T19:29:02Z")
I can’t argue there. But the gun lobby is peanuts in comparison. Note those numbers is why Sanders silly MFA plan was doomed from the start, and he had to know it. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712/40 "2022-06-06T19:48:39Z")
I’ll put aside the “silly” as it will take us off-topic. But I think that just looking at the total donation sizes might give a misleading picture. The gun lobby largely has what they want, including stuff like the Dickey Amendment which put guns in quite a privileged position. So the gun manufacturers just need to pay off a handful of craven senators like Cruz to maintain the status quo. Meanwhile with pharma; new drugs and therapeutics are developed all the time in an industry which is around 20x bigger than the gun manufacturers. It’s beneficial to grease a lot of wheels, in every state in the country. As I say though, I’d rather it was _all_ thrown out of politics, so I am not trying to defend anything, just giving further context. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-it-illegal-for-gun-companies-to-promote-their-products-in-movies-and-tv-shows/965712.md?page=1)