# Make Social Justice Great Again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081 "2020-07-12T02:07:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/41 "2020-07-12T04:54:17Z")
Somewhere, Joe Hill is weeping, _Long-haired preachers come out every night_ _Try to tell you what’s wrong and what’s right_ _But when asked about something to eat_ _They will answer in voices so sweet_ _You will eat, you will eat, by and by_ _In that glorious land in the sky, way up high_ _Work and pray, live on hay_ _You’ll get pie in the sky when you die, that’s a lie_ [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/aIQpuKHHI-E/hqdefault.jpg "Pie in the Sky - Pete Seeger 1965") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIQpuKHHI-E) CMC ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/42 "2020-07-12T04:55:58Z")
[quote=“Roland\_Orzabal, post:40, topic:915081, full:true”] Obligatory addendum to every post that _I am not your enemy_. To all my fellow Dopers, do you genuinely think that I’m a closet racist trying to concern troll? [/quote] Sounds like a time for the Bill Maher quote: “Liberals need to learn to recognize the difference between an enemy and an imperfect ally.” Not that I am saying you are flawed, but rather, there is this mindset of many progressives that either you must march to the same beat as they, or else you are a foe. The notion that someone could advocate for the same cause, but in a different and better way, must be “concern trolling,” it can’t possibly be because that person actually has a better strategy or approach. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/43 "2020-07-12T04:56:41Z")
You seem to think that doing some things takes away from doing others. Of course people dying needs to be the priority. And if we have to choose I choose preventing people from dying. But we don’t have to choose. Just because you think that the demonstrators are diverting focus from the “important stuff” doesn’t make it true. We don’t think you’re the enemy. You’re saying that we are. By doing things the way we’re doing them were making it worse, or at least not making it better. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/44 "2020-07-12T04:57:04Z")
**CMC** , in all sincerity, will you please tell me what your point is in these posts? Do you think I’m a racist? Do you think I’m advocating for something evil? What is it about what I’m saying that you object to? I ask that you don’t respond in song lyrics and YouTube videos, but actually explain to me what you think is wrong about what I’ve said. I promise you I’m actually listening. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/45 "2020-07-12T04:57:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > it can’t possibly be because that person actually has a better strategy or approach Why do you get to decide it’s a better strategy? ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/46 "2020-07-12T05:02:02Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > You seem to think that doing some things takes away from doing others. > Of course people dying needs to be the priority. And if we have to choose I choose preventing people from dying. But we don’t have to choose. Just because you think that the demonstrators are diverting focus from the “important stuff” doesn’t make it true. > > We don’t think you’re the enemy. You’re saying that we are. By doing things the way we’re doing them were making it worse, or at least not making it better. Your latter point is correct; your former isn’t. You think that by saying I think you’re wrong about something, I’m making you “the enemy.” That’s not so. Allies can have conversations about how they approach things. That’s what I’m trying to do. You’re the one who told me that I was never really on your side at all. If anyone’s making anyone else the enemy, it’s you. But I sincerely don’t consider you an enemy, and I want you to understand that. Doing some things _does_ take away from doing others. Of course I think that. That’s the nature of human existence and the reality of time. We only get so much time, energy, and effort to spend on things, even if all of them are important and we wish we could do more. That’s why priorities exist. We DO have to choose. So choose wisely. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/47 "2020-07-12T05:05:03Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > **CMC** , in all sincerity, will you please tell me what your point is in these posts? Do you think I’m a racist? Do you think I’m advocating for something evil? What is it about what I’m saying that you object to? I ask that you don’t respond in song lyrics and YouTube videos, but actually explain to me what you think is wrong about what I’ve said. I promise you I’m actually listening. Well, maybe you should try listening to those songs and see if they strike a nerve. But, lets try this. Ya know how every time there’s a mass shooting and folks say ‘We should do _something_ about this’ and there’s those other folks that say ‘Now isn’t the right time to even discuss doing those things’? Which folks do you think you sound like? CMC ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/48 "2020-07-12T05:06:00Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > Doing some things _does_ take away from doing others. Of course I think that. That’s the nature of human existence and the reality of time. We only get so much time, energy, and effort to spend on things, even if all of them are important and we wish we could do more. That’s why priorities exist. We DO have to choose. So choose wisely. You keep saying this as if it came to you on a stone tablet. You believe it to be true. I do not. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/49 "2020-07-12T05:06:38Z")
Mass shootings, unlike statues, kill people. Trying to prevent them is an immensely valid use of your time. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/50 "2020-07-12T05:07:13Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > You keep saying this as if it came to you on a stone tablet. You believe it to be true. I do not. You don’t believe that time is limited and humans can’t act on all things they’d like to? O\_o I want to live in your world. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/51 "2020-07-12T05:08:19Z")
Annnd obtuseness wins by a nose . . . why do I bother? CMC ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/52 "2020-07-12T05:09:19Z")
No I’m saying there’s more than one of us. You can do it your way and I can do it mine and neither of us will have to sacrifice anything ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/53 "2020-07-12T05:10:20Z")
Obtuseness about what? Can you genuinely not tell that I’m trying to have an actual conversation here? You’re posting song lyrics instead of stating your point directly. Do you think you’re “winning”? This isn’t about winning; I’m not trying to win. I’m trying to support protecting human life. If you think I’m wrong, please tell me why, or if you think I’m incapable of having an intellectually honest conversation, please humor me just enough to explain why you believe that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/54 "2020-07-12T05:13:20Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > You can do it your way and I can do it mine and neither of us will have to sacrifice anything I can spend my time trying my level best to use what resources I have to support the cause of human rights, and you can yell at statues. You are right, we both have the right to do that. One of those things makes liberalism look like pissing into the wind. Also, you decide I’m a racist and don’t support your causes based upon nothing. Good stuff, then, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/55 "2020-07-12T05:15:13Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > One of those things makes liberalism look like pissing into the wind. Also, you decide I’m a racist and don’t support your causes based upon nothing. Good stuff, then, I guess. I don’t care what people think of liberalism. I personally have never said you’re a racist. I don’t know you. And by what you’ve said so far it seems that you are not. But you are on the side of racists who object to the things being done. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/56 "2020-07-12T05:18:40Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > I don’t care what people think of liberalism. Cue the Phil Ochs song . . . again. CMC ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/57 "2020-07-12T05:18:49Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > I don’t care what people think of liberalism. Well THAT we can absolutely agree on. But it makes people think that liberalism is pissing into the wind because that’s exactly what it is. If you don’t attack the ideas that created the symbols, the symbols will persist regardless of how many of them you destroy. It’s like how I believe that you have the right to burn the American flag because fuck you, the American flag will persist. And, I hope, continue to stand for freedom of thought, freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of protection of human rights for every single goddamn person who ever sets foot in this country. You are 100% right; fuck what anyone thinks about liberalism; liberalism is correct. Use your power as an individual to advocate for it in ways which are effective and save lives. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/58 "2020-07-12T05:22:54Z")
Oh, also, **mikecurtis** , you’re entirely right that you have neither said nor implied that I was a racist. I was conflating you with other posters. That was completely wrong of me and I genuinely apologize. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/59 "2020-07-12T05:25:01Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > {…} you have neither said nor implied that I was a racist. {…} Someone else did? Fuck, I missed it! CMC ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/60 "2020-07-12T05:25:55Z")
What makes you think I don’t attack the ideas that made the symbols? You don’t know me, so you have no way of knowing my activist history. And yet you assume that all I do is tear down statues. Not that it’s any of you business, but I have been an anti police activist for 40 years. Ive put in my time and still have the time and energy to pull down statues. Yours is a good way. But it’s not the only way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081.md?page=4)