# Make Social Justice Great Again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081 "2020-07-12T02:07:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/61 "2020-07-12T05:28:58Z")
Sorry to triple-post, but for whatever it’s worth – which isn’t much, I grant; I would think the same – I’m genuinely in tears here over the fact that people I consider my compatriots are considering me an enemy and a bigot over the fact that I disagree with how things are being done. An assumption is being made that I’m being disingenuous and am advocating, stealthily or otherwise, for ignorance and hatred. Nothing could be further from the truth. I disagree with one aspect of how things are being approached by our allies at large. For that, I’m being castigated, and my secondary point is that that’s not a very good way to approach things if you want to encourage people to stay on your side, is being taken as opposition. The opposite side is “let’s throw children into concentration camps,” so you’re not in any danger of losing me, but holy fucking shit. Read the things I’ve written and, if you still think I’m a racist concern troll, put into a cogent argument the reason why. Please. I’m getting desperate here. Genuinely, with the most heartfelt sincerity I can muster. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/62 "2020-07-12T05:31:23Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Someone else did? Fuck, I missed it! I mean, you’re being deliberatly obtuse and trying to communicate in YouTube links, so maybe I misinterpreted whatever the hell you meant. But you certainly dropped a lot of Jim Crow references into your song lyrics and such. If you have a real point that _isn’t_ calling me a racist, please by all means make it, using actual sentences that communicate whatever point(s) you’re trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/63 "2020-07-12T05:32:27Z")
I’m still trying to figure out why the protesters wanted to topple a statue of Ulysses S. Grant. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/64 "2020-07-12T05:34:27Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I’m still trying to figure out why the protesters wanted to topple a statue of Ulysses S. Grant. I’m sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/65 "2020-07-12T05:36:24Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Yours us a good way. But it’s not the only way And **CMC** ’s point is that you’re on the protestors side when it fits into your world view. But not when you consider what they’re doing to be counterproductive. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/66 "2020-07-12T05:37:50Z")
**Roland** , speaking for everyone minus mikecurtis, I could consider you not racist for a supportive reply to my DeSean Jackson pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/67 "2020-07-12T05:38:50Z")
> **[Opinion: It wasn't a mistake to pull down the statue of Ulysses S Grant](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ulysses-s-grant-statue-san-francisco-soldier-politician-a9580091.html)** > > We need to change our perspective on how to memorialize complicated individuals from history ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/68 "2020-07-12T05:40:10Z")
> [@Dr.Crap](#): > > speaking for everyone, Speak for yourself ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/69 "2020-07-12T05:42:13Z")
Balderdash on the _Independent_ article. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/70 "2020-07-12T05:42:34Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > What makes you think I don’t attack the ideas that made the symbols? > You don’t know me, so you have no way of knowing my activist history. And yet you assume that all I do is tear down statues. > Not that it’s any of you business, but I have been an anti police activist for 40 years. Ive put in my time and still have the time and energy to pull down statues. > Yours is a good way. But it’s not the only way. I don’t think that you don’t do that. I don’t know you either. If you do, then good job and I will gladly call you my friend and stand beside you. But if you also spend your limited time and energy and resources on things that don’t help people, then I would advise you to change your strategy. I still think you’re a good person. I still hope to be able to call you my friend. I still want you to succeed in your endeavors, and think that the causes you support are worthwhile from a global perspective. But for what needs to happen right now – again, that whole “strike while the iron is hot” thing, and the iron is glowing red and white – I’d like you to please focus on what will make sure that Thomas Jackson doesn’t die tomorrow where he otherwise would have. Tearing down a statue doesn’t do that. It just doesn’t. It’s not a disputable fact. That is the sum total of all that I am saying. It’s not about statues. It’s about the human right to live. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/71 "2020-07-12T06:11:35Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > I do not advocate Jim Crow policies and nothing I’ve posted even remotely indicates that I do. actually, > [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > … I am advocating some kind of Jim-Crow-law society. … I realize that it is a typo, but it still looks funny. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/72 "2020-07-12T06:31:31Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I realize that it is a typo, but it still looks funny. It’s not a typo. Here’s the actual post you’re taking a portion of out of context: > [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > I can only infer that you’re implying that by asking that we focus on human rights abuses rather than literal inanimate objects, I am advocating some kind of Jim-Crow-law society. I cannot for the life of me imagine how you could read the OP and decide that I’m a racist, but you do you. You’re really reading that as saying that I’m advocating Jim Crow laws? Wow, dude. Go back and take 6th grade English again. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/73 "2020-07-12T10:36:57Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > Doing some things _does_ take away from doing others. Of course I think that. That’s the nature of human existence and the reality of time. We only get so much time, energy, and effort to spend on things, even if all of them are important and we wish we could do more. That’s why priorities exist. We DO have to choose. So choose wisely. It occurs to me that the nature of the reality of space is also relevant. There’s a twist on the “Give a man a fish” proverb that I read here on the Dope. _Give a man a fish, and he’ll eat for a day._ _Teach a man to fish, and he’ll eat for a lifetime._ _ **Teach a million men to fish, and there will be bloodshed when everybody tries to stand at the riverbank at the same time.** _ Think of each Social Justice cause as a riverbank. You can’t FIT EVERYBODY on a single riverbank. And there are enough of us to fill ALL of the riverbanks. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/74 "2020-07-12T10:58:32Z")
I LOVE the destruction of statues and the elimination of racist honorifics. Inherently it reverses the narrative. We will not advocate for anti racism, we will not advocate for equality. We will not advocate and wait for justice. We will take it, by force if necessary, and YOU can advocate for putting things back the way they were. I breaks the inertia that keeps racist stuff around. It say these ideas will not stand, not anymore. They ALL go into the dustbin of history… today. Statues and other honorifics are the most obvious things to dispose of, the low hanging fruit of this racist spring cleaning. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/75 "2020-07-12T12:07:50Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Think of each Social Justice cause as a riverbank. You can’t FIT EVERYBODY on a single riverbank. And there are enough of us to fill ALL of the riverbanks. That’s a fine enough point – sincerely – but the riverbanks of the causes that actually harm people aren’t full enough yet that there’s not room for far, far more people. That’s what I’m saying > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > We will not advocate and wait for justice. We will take it, by force if necessary, and YOU can advocate for putting things back the way they were. **Jesus mother of sweet living fuck.** Is anyone actually bothering to read a word of anything I post? THE GODDAMNED STATUES ARE BAD. If one gets destroyed, bloody Christ no I don’t support putting it back the way it was. I just support spending the copious quantities of time and effort and goodwill toward your fellow man that it takes to yoink down a piece of metal and concrete on actually helping people instead. “Putting things back the way they were.” Fucking hell. I am not your enemy. Read things. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/76 "2020-07-12T12:53:41Z")
Apologies I didn’t mean you personally, meant the general you of society. Taking down a confederate statue tells society that we are not going to spend our time convincing you to take them down, we are going to force the conversation by making society responsible for arguing to put them back up. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/77 "2020-07-12T13:03:43Z")
Why should US military bases be named after traitors that killed Americans and fought against the US armed forces??? Rename the bases, and take the fucking statues down. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/78 "2020-07-12T13:05:25Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > things that _do not immediately hurt anyone_ Says you. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/79 "2020-07-12T13:22:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Says you. Oh for god’s sake. I knew I was going to slip up in my phrasing somewhere (Archer: “Phrasing!”) and this was going to come up. But to quote where I’ve already addressed this: > [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > Statues make people sad because they represent a time when we were a lot more evil and ignorant than we are now, and that’s bad. But, holy shit, to say it again, _people are fucking dying._ They’re dying. Care about that. That is the important thing. Statues can wait. They really, really can. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081/80 "2020-07-12T13:25:39Z")
And for the dozenth time, _statues are not the point_. The point is to help people instead of playing the role of someone who gives a damn by destroying a symbol that’s just going to be rebuilt by those who hold the **ideas** that are damaging America and causing people actual harm. People are going to be beaten in the streets today because assholes are racists. If you have the time and energy to donate to the cause of social justice – and I don’t blame you if you don’t; life is hard and the world is insane at the moment – then use it to fight _that_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-social-justice-great-again/915081.md?page=5)