# Make that $45 trillion to fight AGW. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-that-45-trillion-to-fight-agw/452058 "2008-06-06T20:28:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-that-45-trillion-to-fight-agw/452058/81 "2008-06-13T19:26:01Z")
[QUOTE=Ale] That there´s more ice in the water does not mean that things are getting colder. Ice breaks up from the continental shelf, drifts away and is replaced by new ice coming down from the glaciers. This ice flow rate has increased so there´s more ice in the water and less in the glaciers, so the glaciers [are melting away.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/26/MN50UM20C.DTL) [/QUOTE] That is a different issue. “Sea ice” is not ice that has come from from glacial flow or ice shelf break-up, it is ice that comes from the freezing of the sea itself. This is a seasonal event, and typically multiplies the ice area of Antarctica by ~six times, comparing winter to summer. [http://www.classroom.antarctica.gov.au/6-climate/6-3-annual-ice-cycle](http://www.classroom.antarctica.gov.au/6-climate/6-3-annual-ice-cycle) The significance of the record sea ice last year is far from clear, and your own cite is of course cause for concern, but the record sea ice does indeed mean that in the Antarctic ocean, last year it most certainly did get colder. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-that-45-trillion-to-fight-agw/452058/82 "2008-06-14T18:44:32Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] I just don’t see it happening when a country like China shows no intention whatsoever of slowing down it’s use of carbon fuel for at least the next 100 years. They also have recently signed huge energy deals with Africa for more coal since China’s coal reserve has been estimated to only last for about 100 years. [/quote] Apparently China’s CO2 emissions are now 14 percent higher than those of the USA: [China Increases Lead as Biggest Carbon Dioxide Emitter](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/14/world/asia/14china.html?em&ex=1213588800&en=b8384bd8034f327a&ei=5087%0A) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-that-45-trillion-to-fight-agw/452058/83 "2008-06-18T01:13:29Z")
And here’s another interesting [snippet:](http://tennesseepolicy.org/main/article.php?article_id=764) > [@](#): > > After the Tennessee Center for Policy Research exposed Gore’s massive home energy use, the former Vice President scurried to make his home more energy-efficient. Despite adding solar panels, installing a geothermal system, replacing existing light bulbs with more efficient models, and overhauling the home’s windows and ductwork, Gore now consumes more electricity than before the “green” overhaul. > > Since taking steps to make his home more environmentally-friendly last June, Gore devours an average of 17,768 kWh per month –1,638 kWh more energy per month than before the renovations – at a cost of $16,533. By comparison, the average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year, according to the Energy Information Administration. Granted, this comes from a partisan source and is likely to be spun/exaggerated. But still, I think it underscores the point that it is not so easy to reduce energy use and/or CO2 emissions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-that-45-trillion-to-fight-agw/452058.md?page=4)