# Make Toddlers Cry - It's OK, Since It's For the Anti-Bush Cause! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562 "2006-07-29T18:56:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/21 "2006-07-29T19:49:22Z")
Oh, Lord love a duck! The name “Bush” is mentioned exactly once! And, where, exactly, is any reference “and then decided to do a series based on the same idea.” Where? Outside of your own imagination, that is. Now, if you had a baby puking his tiny little guts out, _that_ would be an appropriate political statement. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/22 "2006-07-29T20:00:00Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I don’t care how many other things it’s about, it’s also about Bush. In fact, that was what got her started on the porject. What part of “How did you come up with this project” do you not understand? [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: [QUOTE=The OP article] We took off his shirt because it was dirty. **He started crying on his own** , and I shot that, and \*\*when I got the contact sheets back \*\* I thought, “This could go with a caption, ‘Four More Years,’” like he was appalled at George Bush’s reelection. [/QUOTE] For all I see she could have got a happy kid and her inspiration could have gone elsewhere, once again it is you who is not understanding the meaning of “How did you come up with this project?” the answer: not by planning to bash Bush beforehand or even exclusively like the OP implied. And if “you don’t care how many other things” are the subject of the work, you are indeed falling in the partisan position that many times you claim you are not taking. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/23 "2006-07-29T20:01:38Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Oh, Lord love a duck! The name “Bush” is mentioned exactly once! [/QUOTE] Exactly once, yes, when she was asked, exaclty once, how she got the idea for the project!! And I’m sure when she talked about making a “political statement” about the anxiety she and others feel, she must’ve been talking about the dire situation that Nancy Pelosi has put us in since she became minority leader in the House. Yeah, that’s it. That’s the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/24 "2006-07-29T20:08:05Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] And is it just me, or does the picture in the link not look like a photograph? It looks like a computer-generated image. [/QUOTE] Her other portraits have that same wierd look: [here](http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm). Maybe she uses Photoshop to kick the saturation up to 11? I prefer the home video approach to the crying fad: [Crying while eating](http://www.cryingwhileeating.com/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/25 "2006-07-29T20:11:03Z")
Oh, I supose it’s just an “accident” that one picture is entitled “Grand Old Party”, and another is entitled “Shock and Awe”. Nothing about Bush there. No siree-Bob! Click on the picture in the link and you can see a slide show of the other photos. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/26 "2006-07-29T20:14:27Z")
**John Mace** is completely right. She explains that the FIRST picture she took of a crying child, he started crying while she was taking the picture: > [@](#): > > When they came to my studio, the mother brought along her toddler son, and I decided to shoot him too. We took off his shirt because it was dirty. He started crying on his own, and I shot that, Then when she saw the developed pictures, she came up with the idea for the caption… > [@](#): > > and when I got the contact sheets back I thought, “This could go with a caption, ‘Four More Years,’” like he was appalled at George Bush’s reelection. And then finishes answering the question by explaining how that one picture became an idea for the project… > [@](#): > > The images have a real power—they immediately get under your skin. The emotion you see is just so compelling, yet they’re beautiful at the same time. That was one of the things that interested me about the project—the strength and beauty of the images as images. one of the goals of it being a political statement… > [@](#): > > I also thought they made a kind of political statement about the current state of anxiety a lot of people are in about the future of the country. Sometimes I just feel like crying about the way things are going. This seems pretty clear to me. Aside from that, I think it takes a pretty mean person to make babies cry on purpose, just to create art. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/27 "2006-07-29T20:14:58Z")
Personally, it bothers me that someone would intentionally make little kids cry, regardless of the reason. And her hyperbole about how her 2-year-old cries “for no reason, a hundred times a day” is a little suspect in my view. On the other hand, she also says “I don’t like making little kids cry.” Obviously, she’s not making kids cry for “the Anti-Bush Cause,” but I can relate to this quote of hers: “Sometimes I just feel like crying about the way things are going.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/28 "2006-07-29T20:16:17Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] The caption on the one in the article says “tribulations” unless you can point to other source, the idea of saying her series is just about Bush is silly. The context of the piece is about suffering in general. [/QUOTE] [Really?](http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/exhibitions/endtimes/works.htm?index=10)The picture in the link Bircker provided was not the one that got her started, obviously. She said it was a little boy, ie, the one in the link I just gave. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/29 "2006-07-29T20:16:35Z")
Read more carefully, **John** , you’re embarassing yourself. “When…conceived the idea of photographing crying children back in 2004…” Where is the political reference? From whence your intuitive leap that she was anticipating an anti-Bush project? She took the photo and when she got back the “contacts” she thought of a caption. Heck, look at the sample offered. Does it make any reference at all to politics? If the point of the project were to make political hay, wouldn’t the proferred sample reflect that? And yet, oddly, it does not. Stop digging, this one is a total loser. Of course, that’s exactly what a Bush hater would say… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/30 "2006-07-29T20:16:40Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] …snip… Aside from that, I think it takes a pretty mean person to make babies cry on purpose, just to create art. [/QUOTE] Well, that last sentence is easy to agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/31 "2006-07-29T20:17:56Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Wow, that’s pretty pathetic. Is it that hard to find kids crying all by themselves? [/QUOTE] According to the article, the kid in the “four more years” pic was crying all by himself. FWIW, I don’t like the idea of making the kids cry for any pic, anti-Bush or not. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/32 "2006-07-29T20:22:06Z")
In Tighty Right Tai Chi, the move “Repulse Monkey” is followed by “Grasp for Straw”. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/33 "2006-07-29T20:22:48Z")
She was interviewed on one of the morning shows, where she said that some children cried on their own, some cried when their parents said they had to go home and some were given candy that was then taken away. In all cases, the parents were present for the photo shoot. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/34 "2006-07-29T20:23:16Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Her other portraits have that same wierd look: [here](http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm). Maybe she uses Photoshop to kick the saturation up to 11? [/QUOTE] Here are the titles of all the photos in that link: _Shock Faith The Rapture Index Trillions Grand Old Party Four More Years The Truth Apocalypse Now Big Brother Cover Up Deniability Earth Intelligent Design Left Behind Misinformation Nucular (sic) Postdiluvian Spin Tribulations Unless Torture_ Anyone still wants to say this isn’t about Bush? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/35 "2006-07-29T20:24:08Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Exactly once, yes, when she was asked, exaclty once, how she got the idea for the project!! [/quote] And in context, it is clearly only an example of one of the pieces. The name most often mentioned for the exhibit is “cry-babies” or “end of times” and the criticism launched against Greenberg in Photo circles is indeed the one of the implied abuse to the children, the Bush bashing in a few pieces in the exhibit is a “baba the perico” (a parrot’s spit) worth of criticism that \*\*Briker \*\* brought forth only to get in the way of a deserved non-partisan pitting. > [@](#): > > And I’m sure when she talked about making a “political statement” about the anxiety she and others feel, she must’ve been talking about the dire situation that Nancy Pelosi has put us in since she became minority leader in the House. Yeah, that’s it. That’s the ticket. But that is making a metaphor a reality: Ask yourself who is the crybaby? Even here, I think you are ignoring who is the one that is being insulted. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/36 "2006-07-29T20:29:45Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Her other portraits have that same wierd look: [here](http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm). Maybe she uses Photoshop to kick the saturation up to 11? [/QUOTE] Those pictures all look computer-generated, like the people in that “Final Fantasy” movie. It’s just so weird. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/37 "2006-07-29T20:32:28Z")
The photos are real, its the babies that are computer generated. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/38 "2006-07-29T20:33:02Z")
I disagree with bashing the woman because she’s anti-Bush. I’d rather bash her for having so little creative talent that she tries to make a living off of bad, schlocky art. Kids cry all the fuckin’ time; it’s what they do for the first two years (or the first 16 years, in the case of my youngest). Get over yourselves. As for the theme, her titles make no sense and the photography is just over-corrected crap. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/39 "2006-07-29T20:36:05Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Anyone still wants to say this isn’t about Bush? [/QUOTE] ‘ **Postdiluvian** ’ can’t be about Bush. He’s the **Antediluvian** president. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/40 "2006-07-29T20:36:10Z")
While some of the anti-Bush flameouts on this board have been pitiful, it’s sad to see **Bricker** and **John Mace** going similarly nuts over this silliness. Omigod - poor widdle toddlers EMOTIONALLY WARPED FOR LIFE so that this HORRIBLE WOMAN could make a POLITICAL STATEMENT!!! It’s enough to make you cry. Or better yet, laugh. “Universal condemnation” indeed. What child defenders should really be up in arms about is the equating of monkey and ape images with those of children. More realistic questions that come to mind reading the article: I wonder if other primates photographed in this fashion look so artificial? And did she try to make the monkeys cry by taking away their food or toys, only to give up the project when they walloped her one instead of sobbing? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562.md?page=3)