# Make Toddlers Cry - It's OK, Since It's For the Anti-Bush Cause! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562 "2006-07-29T18:56:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/101 "2006-07-29T23:32:25Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] …Or taking pictures of crying kids, who apparently aren’t even getting hummers? [/QUOTE] What would a baby do with a giant over-size SUV? Sometimes, you don’t make a lot of sense, **Elvish** ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/102 "2006-07-29T23:35:49Z")
At least she’s not setting them on fire or blowing their arms and legs off like Bush is. It rings kind of hollow for anyone who supports Bush to feign indignation over this. Toddlers cry at the drop of a hat. I know. It doesn’t mean they’re being harmed. They aren’t traumatized by having a toy momentarily held away from them. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/103 "2006-07-29T23:35:50Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] Who was “comparing it to starting a war, holding prisoners in Gitmo, abusing them, or any of the other sins attributed to Bush”? [/QUOTE] You, among others: [QUOTE=Revtim] In response, a conservative photographer should take photos of stem cells crying. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Dewey Finn] Come on. If she really had anti-Bush motives, she might have told the children how long they’d be paying for Bush’s war and how many children and adults were dead as a result. Instead she used the time-tested approach of taking candy from a baby. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=SkipMagic] It’s okay, everyone. The photographer attached signing statements to each photo declaring the kiddos weren’t really crying, and that no legislation passed by Congress could convince her otherwise. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Now what should we be outraged about? Wars of aggression, torture, concentration camps, arrogation of dictatorial powers (er, “the unitary Presidency”, right, **Bricker**?), the crumbling economy, acceleration of global climate change, the rest of the Bush agenda? Or taking pictures of crying kids, who apparently aren’t even getting hummers? [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/104 "2006-07-29T23:36:53Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] At least she’s not setting them on fire or blowing their arms and legs off like Bush is. It rings kind of hollow for anyone who supports Bush to feign indignation over this. Toddlers cry at the drop of a hat. I know. It doesn’t mean they’re being harmed. They aren’t traumatized by having a toy momentarily held away from them. [/QUOTE] And a late entry that should have been included as an example in my last post. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/105 "2006-07-29T23:39:30Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] And a late entry that should have been included as an example in my last post. [/QUOTE] So you admit your complaint is hypocritical and retarded when compared to something legitimately outrageous? How are these babies being harmed, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/106 "2006-07-29T23:40:41Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] And a late entry that should have been included as an example in my last post. [/QUOTE] Except, of course, that it occurred after that post. The number of posters saying making kids cry that you based your “numerous people who feel it was not a particularly bad thing” post on remains at one. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/107 "2006-07-29T23:41:52Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] Who was “comparing it to starting a war, holding prisoners in Gitmo, abusing them, or any of the other sins attributed to Bush”? [/QUOTE] I think the artist got too close for comfort when she titled one of the pieces “Torture” while it was not the intention of \*\*Bricker \*\* and then **John Maze** , her art now got the attention of many here (I just would not pay attention to her, never heard of her and I don’t approve of her methods). Critics scream to heaven for seeing children suffer very mildly in a picture, I just say the artist is not right on doing that, however when politics is made the focus of the criticism then it is impossible to ignore the damming contrast that many on the right could not care less or ignore that the US has tortured people that in some cases were innocent of any wrongdoing. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/108 "2006-07-29T23:44:30Z")
I see Dio and Elvis as fitting your claim, but that shouldn’t be surprising to anyone. The other three looked to me like joke posts. Maybe it’s because I thought that they were funny. If I can bother you with another question, were you more angry about the actions of the artist or the replies you thought that your pit thread of the artist would get? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/109 "2006-07-29T23:47:51Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] I see Dio and Elvis as fitting your claim… [/QUOTE] I should clarify that I saw them as fitting your later claim of comparing the artists actions to those of the president. There has been only one (maybe two) that say that her actions were in and of themselves, no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/110 "2006-07-29T23:50:10Z")
People are acting like it takes some kind of really horrible action to make a baby cry. It takes virtually no effort at all (and the artist said that some of them cried on their own) and just because they’re crying doesn’t mean they’ve been hurt. You can make a baby cry just by making a face at her. It’s completely fucking trivial. I used to make my oldest daughter cry just by saying, “Wendy…I am your father” in a Darth Vader voice. Show me that the woman is doing something to actually harm these kids. It’s not like she’s sticking pins in them or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/111 "2006-07-29T23:52:32Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] So you admit your complaint is hypocritical and retarded when compared to something legitimately outrageous? How are these babies being harmed, exactly? [/QUOTE] The babies suffer no lasting harm. I think deliberately making babies cry is cruel. Obviously, you disagree. That’s fine. I certainly agree it’s not major-league evil. It’s not even so much as criminal. It’s just cruel. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/112 "2006-07-29T23:55:29Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I sincerely can’t imagine that this artist would deny that the political protest was the point of the project. [/QUOTE] Just as spring in Appalachia was the point of Copland’s [Appalachian Spring](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_Spring)? > [@](#): > > Originally, Copland did not have a title for the work, referring to it simply as Ballet for Martha. Shortly before the premiere, Graham suggested Appalachian Spring, a phrase from a Hart Crane poem, even though it has no direct relation to the story of the ballet. Copland was often amused when people told him he captured the beauty of the Appalachians in his music. Artists make things, and then either name them, or don’t name them. The unnamed ones get titles like ‘unnamed oil #1’ or ‘Appalachian Spring’. The named ones also frequently get names that have [fuck](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Marcel_Duchamp_Mona_Lisa_LHOOQ.jpg) [all](http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_results.php?criteria=O%3AAD%3AE%3A3130&page_number=5&template_id=1&sort_order=1) to do with the intent of the work. To find out the intent of the artist, you have to ask them; and they’re notorious liars when money is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/113 "2006-07-29T23:55:43Z")
It doesn’t require any cruelty. They cry at everything all the time already. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/114 "2006-07-30T00:00:08Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] People are acting like it takes some kind of really horrible action to make a baby cry. It takes virtually no effort at all (and the artist said that some of them cried on their own) and just because they’re crying doesn’t mean they’ve been hurt. You can make a baby cry just by making a face at her. It’s completely fucking trivial. I used to make my oldest daughter cry just by saying, “Wendy…I am your father” in a Darth Vader voice. Show me that the woman is doing something to actually harm these kids. It’s not like she’s sticking pins in them or anything. [/QUOTE] She’s taking lollipops away from them. I suppose that’s not a big deal, although I think it’s fair to call it cruel. She gets the parents to leave the room to get the child to cry at the sight of parents leaving him or her alone. I think that’s even crueller. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/115 "2006-07-30T00:01:11Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] You, among others: [/QUOTE] Well done indeed; you submit a trolling OP filled with pre-judgment of the response you’ll get, along with preemptive scorn for your apparent “opposition” - then, when your baiting elicits less than complete agreement, you declare yourself proven right. It’s like **december** and **Reeder** all over again. Marvellous. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/116 "2006-07-30T00:04:05Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] She gets the parents to leave the room to get the child to cry at the sight of parents leaving him or her alone. I think that’s even crueller. [/QUOTE] If that’s the case then my wife and I are cruel whenever we go to the bathroom or leave to go to work. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/117 "2006-07-30T00:05:52Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No one is bashing her because she is anti-Bush. Hell, I’m “anti-Bush”. She’s being bashed because she made kids cry for her own political purpose. [/QUOTE] Don’t kid yourself. She made kids cry for profit, and their mothers went along with it. The whole damned bunch of them are beneath contempt. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/118 "2006-07-30T00:06:29Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] To find out the intent of the artist, you have to ask them; and they’re notorious liars when money is involved. [/QUOTE] Ms Greenburg says: > [@](#): > > I thought, “This could go with a caption, ‘Four More Years,’” like he was appalled at George Bush’s reelection. The images have a real power—they immediately get under your skin. The emotion you see is just so compelling, yet they’re beautiful at the same time. That was one of the things that interested me about the project—the strength and beauty of the images as images. I also thought they made a kind of political statement about the current state of anxiety a lot of people are in about the future of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/119 "2006-07-30T00:08:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] If that’s the case then my wife and I are cruel whenever we go to the bathroom or leave to go to work. [/QUOTE] Do you or your wife go into the bathroom or leave for work for the express purpose of making your kids cry? If you do, then yes, you are indeed cruel. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562/120 "2006-07-30T00:10:12Z")
**Bricker** , m’lad, your loyalty would be noble were it not squandered on such unworthy men. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-toddlers-cry-its-ok-since-its-for-the-anti-bush-cause/366562.md?page=7)