# Making a fortune with really good meth **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 16, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973 "2012-03-16T15:33:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/21 "2012-03-17T12:23:44Z")
It’s true that psuedophedrine has become more and more difficult for allergy sufferers to get, but [these enterprising young fellows](http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf) have found a way to get psuedophedrine from much easier to obtain starting materials. (warning PDF). ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/22 "2012-03-17T12:38:46Z")
FTR I don’t think it’s accurate to say Walt got rich. He had rich-people amounts of money in his basement for a while, but he never actually got around to _being_ rich. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/23 "2012-03-17T14:16:02Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > It’s true that psuedophedrine has become more and more difficult for allergy sufferers to get, but [these enterprising young fellows](http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf) have found a way to get psuedophedrine from much easier to obtain starting materials. (warning PDF). Brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/24 "2012-03-17T14:30:51Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Actually come to think of it, the reason the P2P method generally has a lower yield and potetency may be because of its relative difficulty and the greater knowledge of chemistry it requires. If Walter is a super badass chemist, maybe he’s tweaked (heh) the P2P process to make higher quanities of higher quality. I’ve only seen two or so epsiodes of the show, so I couldn’t say. Or, one can assume he’s making a superior product through the P2P process by dint of simply being a competent chemist with proper equipment, as opposed to some doofus following a “recipe” they found on the internet, using a lot of kitchen utensils, even if the production from pseudoephedrine should be higher quality. For illegal drugs, it goes with the territory that one is likely to get a dubious product, synthesized by somebody who didn’t really know what they were doing - off potency, and contaminated with God knows what. For a tv show, it’s at least reasonable to assume that he could build a reputation by simply producing a reliable product, perceived as “high quality” simply because it was produced properly. For a comparison to moonshine whiskey, he’s not producing a finely aged bourbon, he’s just producing something that has reasonable proofage and isn’t laced with methanol. A drug user might be able to make that sort of discrimination. Oddly, I watched the first season and loved it, but never watched the subsequent programs. I’m not sure why. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/25 "2012-03-17T18:04:00Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I love Breaking Bad, but I thought the whole “purity” thing they do with Walter and Jesse seeing who can cook the most pure is silly, because at the end of the day they will cut it to sell it, and they’re smuggling it within the US so there’s not really much point in making something super pure. > > For the kingpin drug boss, why would he care if it’s 90 percent or 99.9 percent pure really? He’ll just ask his cook to make a larger quantity of it if it’s less pure. This sort of came up in the show, actually. Walter was known to make meth at like 99.9 percent pure (or even a touch higher), whereas another trained chemist who worked for Gus got to like 97 percent or so, I think Jesse got to 93-94 down in Mexico. The kingpin told the other chemist that 97 was fine, and to not even worry about the 99.9 percent meth. It was actually the other chemist who convinced the kingpin they _needed_ the guy who could make the 99.9 meth. The kingpin was dubious, but the other chemist (we can call him Gale), I think just really wanted to work with someone capable of making such a chemically pure product–and not even in a professional lab. Down in Mexico Jesse was upset about his lower purity meth, but it wowed _everyone_ else, no one with the cartel cared, to them 93-94 percent was freaking amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/26 "2012-03-17T18:52:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can accept he’d make better “product” than some half-assed amateurs, but could someone with outstanding skills in the lab really make a meth product that outshone the meth produced by the pros? The thing is, the **vast majority** of meth is made by half-assed amateurs. They aren’t making this shit at Pfizer. It’s being made largely in basements and attics and seedy motels by rednecks and gangsters. Someone who is going to approach it with completely professional equipment, ingredients, and training is a very rare breed. ---
**Author:** ![Entheogen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Entheogen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Entheogen)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/27 "2012-03-17T19:06:53Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I always wondered about that to. Not so much whether Walt could make high quality meth, but whether his customers would care. I usually don’t see alcoholics spending a lot of time seeking out aged whiskey or fine wines. I figure meth-heads would be the same way. Aged whiskey and fine wine don’t necessarily pack more “oomph” than a magnum of cheap’n’dirty. One bottle of fine scotch can’t come close to the buzz one gets from a few two-dollar bottles of Chinese cooking wine. Drug users will pay more for a more potent product, especially dealers, especially when it’s the type of drug that can be cut with foreign material, increasing their profit margins while still selling a comparable product potency-wise. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/28 "2012-03-17T20:49:54Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > For the kingpin drug boss, why would he care if it’s 90 percent or 99.9 percent pure really? He’ll just ask his cook to make a larger quantity of it if it’s less pure. There’s less pure and there’s less pure. Powdered meth that started pure but is actually 10% mannitol is substantially different from meth that’s actually 10% precursors, catalysts, and random junk. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/29 "2012-03-18T01:37:10Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I love Breaking Bad, but I thought the whole “purity” thing they do with Walter and Jesse seeing who can cook the most pure is silly, because at the end of the day they will cut it to sell it, and they’re smuggling it within the US so there’s not really much point in making something super pure. > > For the kingpin drug boss, why would he care if it’s 90 percent or 99.9 percent pure really? He’ll just ask his cook to make a larger quantity of it if it’s less pure. Walt made a big deal that they weren’t going to cut their product. So in the show, what they were selling on the street was as pure as it came out of the lab. ---
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/30 "2012-03-19T15:50:19Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > This sort of came up in the show, actually. Walter was known to make meth at like 99.9 percent pure (or even a touch higher), whereas another trained chemist who worked for Gus got to like 97 percent or so, I think Jesse got to 93-94 down in Mexico. I highly doubt a user could tell the difference between 97% and 99.9%. Imagine a user buys 1 gram of meth. They divide it into 4 piles, roughly 250mg each. At 99.9% it has almost 250mg of meth, at 97% it has about 240mg of meth. Meth addicts aren’t likely to have a scale capable of dividing that gram accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Entheogen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Entheogen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Entheogen)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/31 "2012-03-19T17:21:35Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > I highly doubt a user could tell the difference between 97% and 99.9%. > > Imagine a user buys 1 gram of meth. They divide it into 4 piles, roughly 250mg each. At 99.9% it has almost 250mg of meth, at 97% it has about 240mg of meth. Meth addicts aren’t likely to have a scale capable of dividing that gram accurately. “Coke” scales are cheap, better ones are damn accurate. They sell 'em in variety stores nowadays. > **[HBI Technologies - Customer Support for our Best Scale Brands](https://hbitech.com/)** > > HBI Technologies - Product help and information for My Weigh, J-Scale and ProScale scales. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/32 "2012-03-19T17:30:02Z")
Walt doesn’t have to make a product that appeals to meth users. He makes a product that appeals to meth _sellers_. Certainly, those people are concerned about quality. Not just for the ability to dilute the product but also for reliability and reputation. They can charge their distributors a little extra because everyone knows they push the good shit. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/33 "2012-03-19T17:36:29Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > I highly doubt a user could tell the difference between 97% and 99.9%. > > Imagine a user buys 1 gram of meth. They divide it into 4 piles, roughly 250mg each. At 99.9% it has almost 250mg of meth, at 97% it has about 240mg of meth. Meth addicts aren’t likely to have a scale capable of dividing that gram accurately. Yeah, but what’s that 3% made up of? Red phosphorous, iodine, and dimethylamine? The first two hurt when ingested and the last one hurts and smells like spoiled fish. And Jesse does remark, at the very beginning, “This is Glass.” He knows people respect the visual appearance of better purity. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/34 "2012-03-19T17:41:48Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > There’s less pure and there’s less pure. Powdered meth that started pure but is actually 10% mannitol is substantially different from meth that’s actually 10% precursors, catalysts, and random junk. Right. There’s a big difference between a pure drug cut with harmless bulk agents (done all the time in the legal pharmaceutical market), and a drug mixed with god knows what toxic substances. 99.9% pure isn’t good because there’s 2.9% more meth than 97% pure, it’s good because there are only .1% toxic contaminants instead of 3%. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/35 "2012-03-19T17:57:17Z")
I _keep_ seeing this thread title as “Making a fortune with really good **math** ,” which I believe some people really have done, on Wall Street, for instance. (Well, maybe not _really good_ math, but pretty fancy.) ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/36 "2012-03-19T18:06:02Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I _keep_ seeing this thread title as “Making a fortune with really good **math** ,” which I believe some people really have done, on Wall Street, for instance. (Well, maybe not _really good_ math, but pretty fancy.) Doing a little math here and there won’t hurt you. But over the long run it really adds up. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/37 "2012-03-19T18:18:47Z")
If I make some damn good meth that is beautiful blue crystals am I am going to be able to charge 10 times the going rate and “get rich”? Probably not. If I make some damn good meth that is beautiful blue crystals that immediately tells everyone this stuff is actually THE stuff, has no nasty contaminants, and isnt actually just mostly baby powder can I easily sell what I make? Probably so. You can probably get rich selling decent amounts of meth for the market value, much less 10 times it. The thing is, you gotta convince the buyers (either wholesale or retail) that you are selling the real deal. If you have crap or stuff that looks like all the other crap stuff the slackers are making and selling you need an army to get rid of it. If you have the good stuff, it sells itself (though perhaps not at some absurd premium). Thats the whole beginning premise of Breaking Bad. They want to make a few good batches, with no overhead and an easy sale. Which I think is perfectly believable and realistic. Also, keep in mind a good chemist ain’t going to ruin large fractions of the hard to find key ingredients with bad batches, which is probably the main reason “chicken man” wanted “Heisneburg”. ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/38 "2012-03-20T02:12:06Z")
I read an [article](http://www.calgaryherald.com/technology/Life+inside+Calgary+ecstasy/6204010/story.html) a few weeks ago that purports to interview an ex-manufacturer, now reformed, who claims a storyline much like that in the OP. He used his “university-level chemistry education” to found and operate a high-grade ecstasy lab (complete with custom glassware), eventually “refining [his] process to attain maximal yields.” He states: [QUOTE=Adam] By efficiency I mean either it ran quicker, used fewer ingredients (or less costly ingredients) or produced a more pure product for each step of the process. I modified my original recipe with their advice on more than one occasion, resulting in a really high yield from my initial precursor and in turn reduced my costs. [/quote] Given the condition of some of the other labs mentioned in the article, I suspect that the reality is similar to what **yabob** states upthread; someone with a modicum of knowledge and diligence can build a better product than “yahoo” types with no regard for safety or the environment. Whether this translates into a substantive market advantage, I can’t say. Interesting read, though. Disclaimer: this is a story told by a convicted felon, the drug was ecstasy (not meth), I’ve never watched _Breaking Bad_, do not taunt Happy Fun Ball[sup]TM[/sup], YMMV, etc. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/39 "2012-03-20T18:39:10Z")
I recall reading in a magazine article that using road flares as a source of sulfur, instead of matches, which is the norm, yields a superior product. However, I cannot provide any cites or additional details in support of this. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973/40 "2012-03-20T19:26:29Z")
> [@skdo23](#): > > I recall reading in a magazine article that using road flares as a source of sulfur, instead of matches, which is the norm, yields a superior product. You mean red phosphorus, not sulfur. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-fortune-with-really-good-meth/615973.md?page=3)