# Making a map of dopers' political opinions

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [December 15, 2002, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968 "2002-12-15T22:53:52Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![ray20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@ray20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ray20)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/41 "2002-12-16T07:53:08Z")

</div>

I’m suprised we have so many 30s & 31s without ANY 2s. How’s that work?

Thanks for all the responses so far.

I’m going to do one more round of this with better questions. Please feel free to suggest any.

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**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/42 "2002-12-16T08:06:24Z")

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1. Disagree

2. Disagree

3. Disagree

4. No opinion

5. Disagree

6. Disagree

7. No opinion

8. Agree

9. Agree

10. No opinion

11. Disagree

12. Disagree

13. No opinion

14. Disagree

15. Disagree

16. Disagree

17. Agree

18. Disagree

19. No opinion

20. Disagree

21. No opinion

22. Agree

23. Agree

24. Agree

25. No opinion

26. Disagree

27. Agree

28. Disagree

29. Disagree

30. Agree

31. Disagree

32. Agree

33. No opinion

34. Agree

35. Agree

36. Agree

37. Disagree

38. Disagree

39. Disagree

40. Agree

41. No opinion

42. Agree

By the way, for the second round: **ray20** – must our responses be posted publicly? Is that an important part of the study? Will it be possible to have somewhere we can e-mail responses?

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**Author:** ![goonhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ebca7d/32.png) [@goonhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/goonhead)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/43 "2002-12-16T08:22:47Z")

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1. D
2. D
3. D
4. D
5. D
6. A
7. D
8. D
9. A
10. A
11. A
12. D
13. D
14. D
15. D
16. A
17. D
18. D
19. D
20. A
21. A
22. A
23. D
24. A
25. D
26. D
27. D
28. D
29. A
30. A
31. A
32. A
33. D
34. D
35. A
36. D
37. D
38. A
39. D
40. A
41. A
42. A

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**Author:** ![NightRabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@NightRabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NightRabbit)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/44 "2002-12-16T08:43:07Z")

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1. Agree
2. Disagree
3. Disagree
4. Disagree
5. Disagree
6. Agree
7. ?? No clue what this means
8. Disagree
9. Agree
10. Agree
11. Agree
12. Disagree
13. Disagree
14. Disagree
15. Disagree
16. Disagree
17. Disagree
18. Disagree
19. Disagree
20. Agree
21. Agree
22. Disagree
23. Disagree
24. Disagree
25. Disagree
26. Agree
27. Agree
28. Disagree
29. Disagree
30. Agree
31. Disagree
32. Don’t know much about it
33. Disagree
34. Disagree
35. Agree
36. Disagree
37. Agree
38. Agree
39. Disagree
40. Disagree
41. Don’t know
42. Agree

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**Author:** ![0rbytal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/0/65b543/32.png) [@0rbytal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/0rbytal)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/45 "2002-12-16T16:07:54Z")

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1. Disagree
2. Disagree
3. Agree with first part——»close prisons, i’m for banishment like on “No Escape”
4. Disagree
5. Disagree
6. Agree
7. Don’t Know (I think I agree, if it reduces pollution or something)
8. Agree if you meant: Companies should not be allowed to bill people for time spent on hold
9. Agree, only if they need it, not mandatory
10. Disagree
11. Agree
12. Disagree
13. Disagree
14. Disagree
15. Disagree
16. Disagree
17. Agree
18. Agree
19. Don’t know / understand
20. Disagree
21. Agree to an extent because most things can be considered work
22. AGREE
23. AGREE
24. AGREE
25. DISAGREE
26. AGREE
27. AGREE
28. DISAGREE
29. Agree only that: Communism has some promise in a perfect world
30. Disagree
31. Agree only that: Anarchism has some promise in a perfect world
32. AGREE
33. Disagree
34. AGREE
35. AGREE
36. Don’t know
37. Disagree: because evil should be resisted, by force if necessary
38. AGREE
39. Disagree, you should help those in need
40. AGREE
41. somewhat agree
42. Agree

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**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/46 "2002-12-16T16:17:20Z")

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For your reading pleasure, Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D. (with degrees in political science and engineering as well as being a best-selling author) provides you with [the Pournelle Axes](http://www.baen.com/chapters/axes.htm). (The article is excerpted from a Baen-published book and was written by Pournelle)

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**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/47 "2002-12-16T16:21:39Z")

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I agree on only 4.

7,11,26,41

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**Author:** ![Pablito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@Pablito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pablito)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/48 "2002-12-16T16:46:55Z")

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This is pretty fun. I had to stretch myself to give answers to some of these, but a few of these issues are just too complex or not specific enough as stated to reduce to a binaristic resolution, which is an inevitable consequence of polling and comparative studies. Of course I’m sure you recognize all that.

1. D
2. D
3. D
4. D
5. D; but raise your number here and I’d agree, anything over 1/4 billion, say, off the top of my head
6. A
7. A
8. A
9. A
10. A
11. A
12. D
13. D
14. D
15. Issue is too complex to reduce to D/A
16. D
17. D
18. D
19. Put a gun to my head and ask me to choose, and I’ll say “D,” but I’m more comfortable with “it depends”
20. A
21. A
22. A
23. D
24. D
25. A
26. D, but clearly some exceptions, e.g.: Michael Milken’s digs.
27. D
28. D
29. D
30. D
31. D (I’ve assumed here that you mean “anarchism” rather than “Ararchism”)
32. A; but more than a few tweaks
33. D
34. D
35. D
36. D
37. D
38. A
39. A (but I read “as much as possible” to mean that there are some situations in which we do need to interfere with one another’s actions)
40. A
41. A; but “efficiency” is not on the top of my priority list, at least not when it runs rampant and amuck and tramples on other values, such as ecology, care for the individual, justice, etc.
42. A

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**Author:** ![MSU\_1978](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/49 "2002-12-16T16:58:03Z")

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I agree with only 1, 7, 11, 23, 25, 26, 28, 35, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, and 43.

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**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/50 "2002-12-16T17:33:17Z")

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Well, I’ll give it a shot.

1. D
2. D
3. D
4. D
5. D
6. A
7. A
8. A
9. A
10. A
11. A
12. D
13. D
14. D
15. D
16. A  
18)D  
19)A
17. D
18. D
19. A
20. D
21. D  
25)D
22. A
23. D  
28)D
24. D
25. D
26. D
27. D
28. A
29. A
30. A
31. A
32. D
33. D
34. A
35. D
36. A
37. A
38. A

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![beegirl13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@beegirl13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beegirl13)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/51 "2002-12-16T17:33:43Z")

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1. D
2. D
3. D
4. D
5. D
6. A
7. 
8. A
9. D
10. A
11. A
12. D
13. D
14. D
15. D
16. A
17. D
18. 
19. A
20. 
21. 
22. A
23. 
24. A
25. 
26. 
27. 
28. D
29. D
30. 
31. D
32. 
33. D
34. 
35. D
36. 
37. D
38. A
39. 
40. A
41. 
42. 

Blanks indicate confusion or indecision.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![pestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@pestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pestie)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/52 "2002-12-16T17:40:48Z")

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1. A
2. D
3. pass
4. D
5. D
6. A
7. A
8. A
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. A
13. D
14. A
15. D
16. D
17. A
18. A
19. A
20. A
21. A
22. pass
23. D
24. D
25. D
26. D
27. A
28. D
29. D
30. D
31. D
32. A
33. D
34. D
35. A
36. D
37. D
38. D
39. A
40. AAAAAAA 😉
41. D
42. A

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/53 "2002-12-16T17:47:40Z")

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1. People shouldn’t automatically have the right to reproduce \<-- disagree with reservations
2. Abolish private ownership of income-generating property \<-- disagree with reservations
3. Most prisons should be closed; give the inmates jobs and counseling \<-- agree with reservations
4. Armies should be replaced by lightly armed border guards \<-- disagree with complicated reservations
5. Fortunes over a million dollars should be confiscated \<-- disagree with reservations
6. National forests should be offlimits to logging \<-- agree
7. Move to a hydrogen economy \<-- agree with reservations
8. People should be allowed to bill companies for time spent on hold \<-- depends on circumstances
9. Kids of convicts should receive mentoring, tutoring, scholarships, etc \<-- agree
10. Low income seniors should get free drugs \<-- agree
11. The world’s institutions are patriarchal (based on male authority) \<-- agree and oppose it
12. There is no such thing as “mental illness” \<-- agree
13. There’s no need for a hierarchy of people having authority over others \<-- agree
14. We are weakening our species by allowing defective specimens to survive \<-- disagree with side notes and acknowledgement of good points on other side
15. Spend $ on expansion (into space, oceans) not internal problems \<-- disagree
16. Reach out toward the stars before the earth is rendered unlivable \<-- disagree
17. Guns should be encouraged, and shooting skills should be taught in schools \<-- neutral
18. Property tax should be abolished \<-- disagree
19. Intellectual property laws hurt humanity as a whole \<-- disagree with many reservations
20. I enjoy riding on public transportation \<-- agree
21. It’s valid to not want to work \<-- disagree
22. God exists \<-- define “God”
23. Homosexual behavior is a sin \<-- disagree
24. Heaven and Hell exist \<-- define “Heaven” and “Hell”
25. Underage drinking is wrong \<-- disagree
26. Prisons are too luxurious - make them do more hard labor \<-- disagree
27. Affirmative Action is racist \<-- disagree with many reservations incl. acknowledgement of good points made on other side
28. There is no place for guns in a civilized society \<-- disagree
29. Communism has some promise with a few tweaks here and there \<-- disagree unless its critique of capitalism counts as “promise” in and of itself
30. Socialism has some promise with a few tweaks here and there \<-- disagree see above
31. Ararchism has some promise with a few tweaks here and there \<-- agree
32. Libertarianism has some promise with a few tweaks here and there \<-- agree
33. There should be one world government \<-- agree with lots and lots of disclaimers and reservations
34. The government shouldn’t mess with the market \<-- unable to answer as worded
35. Industrial development, oil rigs, highways, etc aren’t ugly \<-- agree (we’re talking aesthetics here, right?)
36. We should exploit energy reserves in the ANWR \<-- disagree
37. No cause justifies violence \<-- disagree but accept lots of limitations
38. No cause justifies vandalism \<-- disagree but accept lots of limitations
39. We should all leave each other completely alone as much as possible \<-- agree (if by “leave alone” you meain “refrain from coercing”)
40. Limiting our individual freedoms will not stop terrorism \<-- agree loudly
41. Laisse-faire capitalism is the most efficient possible economic system \<-- define “efficient” (for whom or what?)
42. Society shouldn’t starve people into productivity \<-- agree

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**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/54 "2002-12-16T19:44:29Z")

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1. D
2. D
3. D
4. D
5. D
6. D
7. A
8. A
9. A to mentoring and tutoring. D to scholarships.
10. A
11. D
12. D
13. D
14. D
15. fallacy of the excluded middle
16. A
17. D
18. D
19. D
20. A
21. A, but it’s not valid to expect to be compensated for that desire.
22. A
23. D
24. D (heaven maybe, hell no)
25. A (wrong may be a strong word, but I agree with a legal drinking age.)
26. A
27. A
28. D
29. D (more than a few tweaks)
30. D
31. D
32. A
33. A (ideally, eventually, but not yet)
34. A
35. A
36. A
37. D
38. D
39. A
40. A
41. A (that we know of)
42. ? what? I guess D

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/55 "2002-12-16T19:53:28Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ray20 \*  
> \*\*Astro I mostly agree with what you said. 🙂 I think agree/disagree is mostly useless with respect to individual opinions, but potentially useful to relate opinions to each other and place them in a map.
> 
> Just don’t vote on the ones that aren’t phrased well enough to yield an agree or disagree vote.
> 
> My program clusters opinions together based on the people who share them. So you might expect two big clusters easily identifiable as “left” and “right,” but that’s not what I’ve found so far. Details of how it works are still changing daily. I will post a better explanation soon though. \*\*

Maybe the problem is the inadequacy of the concept of summing up opinions according to a left/right spectrum. Are you familiar with the idea of using a diamond pattern instead? Also called the Nolan chart?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/56 "2002-12-16T20:14:25Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Polycarp \*  
> \*\*For your reading pleasure, Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D. (with degrees in political science and engineering as well as being a best-selling author) provides you with [the Pournelle Axes](http://www.baen.com/chapters/axes.htm). (The article is excerpted from a Baen-published book and was written by Pournelle) \*\*

Fascinating! Thank you, Polycarp!

This is similar to the Nolan chart, but perhaps better. I need to delve into it more.

And before reading this, it never occured to me that some people might want to hang on to the inadequate left/right spectrum out of a desire to render murky their actual position.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![ray20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@ray20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ray20)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/57 "2002-12-16T20:41:51Z")

</div>

I’m trying to get away from all of those we-know-the-predefined-dimensions type models of opinion space, and create something more open ended.

In other words I’m not making a map of what political space SHOULD be according to some meaningful classification scheme, but what it is (here anyway), even if that puts socialists in the center next to fascists and anarchists.

One thing that’s really interesting so far is the structural importance of religion, universalism (#34 & maybe 20) and libertarianism as bridges between the left and right.

So far (and this interpretation reveals my bias), the right seems divided into sortof the rhetorical whatever-sounds-the-meanest right (the anti-emotional right? questions 1+15+18+27) and sincere free market / religious conservatism (these two are surprisingly close, which reminds me of Tom Frank’s hilarious little essay “The God that Sucked.” [http://www.thebaffler.com/gts.html](http://www.thebaffler.com/gts.html))

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/58 "2002-12-16T20:49:51Z")

</div>

My turn.

1. Disagree (D)
2. D
3. D
4. D
5. D (and childish!)
6. Agree (A)
7. Insufficient information
8. A
9. Insufficient information
10. D
11. A
12. D
13. D
14. D
15. D
16. D
17. D
18. D
19. D
20. A
21. D
22. D
23. D
24. D
25. D
26. D
27. D
28. D
29. D
30. A
31. D
32. A
33. D
34. D
35. A
36. A
37. A
38. A
39. A
40. A
41. D
42. A

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/59 "2002-12-16T20:55:30Z")

</div>

1. D
2. D
3. D
4. D
5. D
6. A
7. D
8. A
9. A
10. A
11. A
12. D
13. D
14. A
15. A
16. A
17. D
18. D
19. D
20. D
21. A
22. A
23. D
24. A
25. D
26. A
27. A
28. D
29. A
30. A
31. D
32. A
33. D
34. A
35. D
36. D
37. D
38. D
39. A
40. A
41. D
42. A

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-a-map-of-dopers-political-opinions/142968/60 "2002-12-16T21:19:04Z")

</div>

1. D
2. D
3. A
4. D
5. D
6. D
7. D
8. D
9. D
10. D
11. D
12. D
13. A
14. A

All other questions lacked enough data to express an opinion on.

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