# making america great again **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 24, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585 "2017-08-24T19:17:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/62 "2017-08-27T22:08:44Z")
That is yet another solution. But certainly not the only possible one. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/63 "2017-08-27T23:10:46Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > There’s sort of a two-pronged answer to the OP’s question. > > One comes from Alexis de Tocqueville, and his famous observation-- “America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.” > > Today, American has, in large part, ceased to be good. (Not that it ever was, completely, but there was much more reverence for the things of God in the past.) We have many people who deny that Christianity played any role in the founding of the nation–even though most of the Founders were religious people in some form or another. Even Benjamin Franklin proposed prayer during the Constitutional Convention. There would be howls of outrage and loud cries of “Separation of church and state!” if such a thing happened today. We have many people who celebrate and promote sexual perversion in the name of “equality.” We have many people who are actively trying to tear down traditional standards of morality and decorum in the name of “progress”–witness all the high school girls who have made the news for fighting against dress codes. A school just this week made the news for not letting a boy who had long hair attend school–and many people are outraged over that, when they should be outraged at his parents. > > Going along with that, many people today think of the 1950s as being the last period when America was “good.” Now certainly, there were many problems; racism was very widespread, even among people who (falsely) claimed to be Christians. But there were standards of decorum, and standards of at least outward morality, that have been almost totally abandoned in the last 40 years. Premarital sex was still considered shameful, instead of being celebrated in the name of “love.” Most people dressed reasonably modestly back then, instead of thinking that it would be ok to go half naked in public. Women wore skirts and dresses, instead of cross-dressing. Divorce was scandalous. Most people went to church, instead of treating Sunday as merely another day of the week. Even though many people were not actually Christians, there was a degree of religious feeling and religious knowledge that is totally lacking today. Thank you for answering. I was thinking that most Trump supporters are thinking 1950s and more Christian. In the 50s you did not need a education to make a fairly good living (if you were a white male). In the 50s, religion was more a central theme of life and it was overwhelmingly Christian in nature to the point where Christians could look down on the Catholics & of course the Jews. Woman knew their places in Middle Class families. (In the Kitchen) Non-Whites were deferential. (Afraid of making waves and being beat up, arrested or even hung) No gays were public except for a few of those Hollywood types and that wasn’t too bad. The Greatness part (as in the economy) came largely due to being by far the industrial power of the world with exports to all of the rebuilding countries following WWII. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/64 "2017-08-27T23:22:55Z")
The Laffable Curve is just like Marxism - it requires people to totally not act like people to have any chance of working. Supply-side economics will always fail, because it involves people. Personally, I’ve always felt that America was great on Nov. 11, 1972 between 8 and 9pm, PST. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/65 "2017-08-28T01:53:00Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > In the 50s, religion was more a central theme of life and it was overwhelmingly Christian in nature to the point where Christians could look down on the Catholics & of course the Jews. If you meant to say Protestant where you wrote Christian, I agree. If you think Catholics aren’t Christian, I have to say you should look up the definition of “Christian,” as you’re quite mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/66 "2017-08-28T03:51:27Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > In that spirit, I would say the best time to restore us to was November 7th 2016. If that’s the day before the elections and the multi-billion facepalm, this foreigner agrees. The US seems to have self-image issues: on one hand, you’ve convinced many people both at home and abroad that you’re The Place To Be, yours the customs to imitate, the cultural reference for anything and everything, the rest of the world is a dump\*… and on the other there’s a lot of Americans who for some reason think you’re the dumps. I’d find it confusing if I didn’t know that there is a different lot of Americans making money off the fear and hate and laughing all the way to the bank. - I’ve actually met Americans who were surprised to hear you can get a college degree, a PhD or teach in a college in Olde Europe. OK, so they weren’t the brightest bulbs on the tree. They still have the right to vote. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/67 "2017-08-28T13:29:44Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > If you meant to say Protestant where you wrote Christian, I agree. > > If you think Catholics aren’t Christian, I have to say you should look up the definition of “Christian,” as you’re quite mistaken. I think you missed the tone of my post, but many Protestants did not consider Catholics to be real Christians. Remember the Catholics were those Italians, Irish and Polish immigrants. For the record I am Italian-American, so you did misread my intent. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/68 "2017-08-28T13:56:54Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Most Cultural Marxists want the opposite: Revenge, with the White Male rendered docile, obedient, humbled, and broken, a tail between his legs; apologetic; lacking all confidence and any sense of authority. In other words, the same treatment the White Christian Male has inflicted on everyone else all these years. Are you surprised by that or something? As for Cultural Marxism - you do realize that’s a sort of Neo-Nazi dog whistle, yes? A sort of latter day Protocols of the Elders of Zion ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/69 "2017-08-28T14:03:26Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > If you meant to say Protestant where you wrote Christian, I agree. > > If you think Catholics aren’t Christian, I have to say you should look up the definition of “Christian,” as you’re quite mistaken. If you think there aren’t Protestants that think Catholics aren’t Christian you aren’t paying attention. There are plenty just in my neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/70 "2017-08-28T14:26:22Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I think you missed the tone of my post, but many Protestants did not consider Catholics to be real Christians. Remember the Catholics were those Italians, Irish and Polish immigrants. For the record I am Italian-American, so you did misread my intent. > [@Broomstick](#): > > If you think there aren’t Protestants that think Catholics aren’t Christian you aren’t paying attention. There are plenty just in my neighborhood. I understand and acknowledge what you’re both saying. But by any proper definition Catholics are indeed Christian. My point is you don’t need to echo the mistake of ignorant protestants, you can use the terms correctly and avoid any chance of misunderstanding, or of appearing similarly ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/71 "2017-08-28T14:46:22Z")
Except we weren’t talking about educated, reasonable people we’re talking about people wanting to return to a Golden Age of the 1950’s that never existed in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/72 "2017-08-28T17:34:17Z")
It really shows me that I don’t understand people if MAGA means going back to short hair on men. Of all the things “wrong” with America since we are no longer “great”, THIS is the thing that needs to be fixed? I truly don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Bobdavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@Bobdavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobdavis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/73 "2017-08-28T17:36:39Z")
I hope the Cold War will not cripple America, but it is doing a pretty good job, so far. Tragically, Trump was trying to end it, but he has been “disciplined”. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/74 "2017-08-30T21:03:42Z")
> [@Pinmin](#): > > I believe MAGA conveys the idea that not all change in America has been good. There should be an effort to go back to better days _in those areas._ Well-stated! The difference, of course, is very much a matter of perspective – which we’re trying to discuss in a civilized manner. For instance, there is one extreme perspective which holds that Communism is so deplorable that no communist country should be allowed to do business with the United States; while others believe Nixon was pragmatic and correct to dump the treaty with Taiwan and open trade with China. > [@Pinmin](#): > > For example, the breakdown of the family, criminal violence (yes, I know this is on the way down, but the homicide rate in Chicago tripled from 1950 to 1970) May I assume this is NOT one of the arguments in favor of returning to the 1950’s when homicides were increasing? (I’m joking around a bit; just take it lightly.) > [@Pinmin](#): > > , government intrusion into the lives of citizens and in the way of small business (his supporters believe less is better), Let me come back to this next. > [@Pinmin](#): > > the ability to comfortably support a family on the pay of an average factory, construction, etc job. But that change was not a result of governmental policy; that was purely about capitalism doing what capitalism does best: [Del]exploit[/del] capitalize. CarnivorousPlant has already outlined the economic boom resulting from war veterans returning victorious to their homelands. At the same time, the women who had been working to support their families during The War didn’t all just drop out and go back to hiding in the kitchen. They found that working and earning their own money was personally fulfilling in ways that raising kids was not; the stigma of being a working female was fading and they found that having extra money meant those neat byproducts of wartime inventiveness were affordable. But capitalism is a two-way exchange rooted by the inescapable law of supply-and-demand. As merchants realized there was more money in family coffers, they raised prices. As double-income households became more and more common, the prices for dwellings, goods, and services that supported those households swiftly rose to accommodate those doubled incomes. The importation of cheap chintz from China was only a stop-gap, and while the Oil Extortion from OPEC increased the pain, the stag-flation years of the early 1970’s was an inevitable indicative result of the market adapting to the tremendous prosperity of the 50’s and 60’s. We were turning the corner, becoming more affluent as a whole, and suffering the growing pains that come with the deal. Which brings me back to the government issue: The prosperity and product availability that was suddenly so abundant to the masses after World War II were very much due to the government meddling that Regressives want to discard. Contrary to popular mythology, the now-ubiquitous microwave oven was not an accidental discovery but an intentional product of intense effort by the United States’ Air, Marine corps, Army, and NAvy research project (AMANA, get it?), communications satellites were a byproduct of military rocketry programs, and even television was a researched byproduct of Sonar and RADAR technologies. Even M&Ms were a product designed for military use. To wish away the sources of those products is to wish for the defeat of the Allied Forces. After the troops came home, the government made good on its payroll backlog and the troops had money available to buy those cars, TVs, homes, and appliances that were becoming newly available. Would you have preferred the meddling government flake out on that debt? Would you have preferred the government just pretend the War to End All Wars never happened and ignore its debt to those veterans? After The War and, particularly in the shadow of the Fat Man, Eisenhower decided it was better to break up industrial clusters and spread them across the nation so that no single program would be vulnerable to an Atomic Bomb and leave the country reeling and helpless. To facilitate this, he proposed an inter-state highway system, upon which huge trucks could carry massive loads across the country. This, in turn, made all those new-fangled gadgets and appliances readily-available to the newly prosperous veterans and double-income families. Which circles me back, again, to the fundamentals of Capitalism: With more money available, merchants quite naturally increased their prices and the government generally did nothing to hinder them. How could it do less? How could it get further out of the business-man’s way? And to suggest the government should have stepped in to control prices, to manipulate and influence the economy…hmmm…that sounds a lot like Communism! Better that it let markets spiral and crash on Junk Bonds and Penny Stocks, Mortgage-based futures, and land speculation, right? After all, our current President got to where he was by making a fortune on the late 1970’s real estate boom. –G! The past looks rosier through the selective filters of human memory. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/75 "2017-08-31T11:33:31Z")
Excellent post, **Grestarian**. And of course the next stage of capitalism was offshoring to take advantage of cheaper labor and automation to take advantage of virtually free labor. Those are the things that are killing the working class right now. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/76 "2017-08-31T15:01:10Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > Contrary to popular mythology, the now-ubiquitous microwave oven was not an accidental discovery but an intentional product of intense effort by the United States’ Air, Marine corps, Army, and NAvy research project (AMANA, get it?), communications satellites were a byproduct of military rocketry programs, and even television was a researched byproduct of Sonar and RADAR technologies. Even M&Ms were a product designed for military use. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Excellent post, **Grestarian**. Did I miss something? Is this a joke thread? Am I being whooshed? Sometimes you can’t tell. Grestarian’s quoted point above is 99% bullshit. Amana was named for the town in Iowa where it was located, and had nothing to do with the development of the microwave oven. Television was invented out of the blue by some guy in Rigby, Idaho, who had his ideas stolen by RCA. M&Ms were a knockoff of a British candy, and were first made in the '30s. If you aren’t making a funny, you really should take your BS “facts” and go somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/77 "2017-08-31T18:36:15Z")
So this is IMHO, based on having grown up in the 70s and 80s and having conservative in-laws who live in parts of New Jersey and Pennsylvania where there are Trump billboards. Conservatives seem to have this mentality that America is inherently and unquestioningly the greatest country on Earth. They tend to resist any information that contradicts that as “complaining”, “negativity”, “disloyalty” or now “fake news”. IOW, America “works” and if it isn’t working for you, it’s probably because you are lazy, soft or didn’t try hard enough. A good analogy is a typical American high school (or at least how I remembered it, graduating in 1991). It was just sort of accepted that the football, baseball and basketball jocks and cheerleaders were the “popular kids” and that skinny bookworms that plaid D&D were “nerds” not worthy of friendship or dating. At best, they deserved pity and ambivalent neglect rather than an actual beating. Captain of the football team and dating the hottest cheerleader was what every red-blooded American boy should be aspiring too. But all that has changed (to the Conservative mind). The nerds, freaks and weirdos all deserve special treatment while the guys who won the State Championship are somehow worthy of scorn. You can’t say anything to anyone without the administration coming down on you. Indeed, everything that was once considered a symbol of excellence and achievement is now mocked and ridiculed. At least that’s how I imagine they see it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/78 "2017-08-31T21:29:33Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > America is great, and will continue to be great, despite current attempts by incompetents. Corollary to this, he will be in a position to make America Great Again only _after_ he has turned it into a dystopian hellscape. So, October this year? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/79 "2017-08-31T21:35:17Z")
> [@Bobdavis](#): > > I hope the Cold War will not cripple America, but it is doing a pretty good job, so far. > > Tragically, Trump was trying to end it, but he has been “disciplined”. The Cold War was OVER (the west won, btw). The only thing the America-hating fuckstick\* has been trying to do is facilitate the resurrection of the Soviet Union (maybe so we an have another one?). \*That’s Trump, just in case anyone wants to be “clever.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/80 "2017-08-31T21:58:57Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > Well-stated! > The difference, of course, is very much a matter of perspective – which we’re trying to discuss in a civilized manner. For instance, there is one extreme perspective which holds that Communism is so deplorable that no communist country should be allowed to do business with the United States; while others believe Nixon was pragmatic and correct to dump the treaty with Taiwan and open trade with China. The problem here is that the practice of Communism tends to make a lot people long for the days they could live above ground. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585/81 "2017-08-31T22:42:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The problem here is that the practice of Communism tends to make a lot people long for the days they could live above ground. Huh? Can you provide some background on this statement? Where is who living underground, and why? And, BobDavis, how did Trump get disciplined for trying to win the Cold War? What was he not supposed to do that got him caught and disciplined? [I could put a very snarky answer here, but I’m actually honestly asking for details of whatever incident I missed from avoiding the News lately.] –G? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-america-great-again/794585.md?page=5)