# Making lasagna like the professional lasagna-makers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217 "2010-06-14T22:53:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/1 "2010-06-14T22:53:08Z")
They must have some secret to getting the noodles firm, right? Alas, my mom’s lasagna comes out… mushy. Gooey. I don’t want to hurt her feelings by saying, “Thanks for the pasta, but it’s kinda gross.” I want to find a better recipe/cooking method, then go over and say, “Hey, I found this new way of making lasagna, want to try it?” Tips? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/2 "2010-06-14T22:58:53Z")
1. Cook it for a shorter time (you might need a slightly thicker sauce to compensate for the decreased evaporation). 2. Use dried lasagna sheets instead of fresh. Me, I like my lasagna soft (not falling apart, but soft enough that you can very easily “cut” a bite-sized chunk off with the side of your fork). ETA: 1. use less sauce, and more pasta. ETA ETA: **4. Make it yourself!** ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/3 "2010-06-14T23:05:01Z")
Sounds like she has too much liquid, which is easy to do and/or overcooks the noodles. I personally prefer to make pasta sheets from scratch from durum semolina, which actually doesn’t take too long and gives pasta that is able to absorb some liquid while maintaining consistency (or “toothiness” as some call it). The pasta will continue to bake in the oven, so as long as it is in contact with some liquid it will become tender, so when you are boiling it before assembling the pasta you really want it to be pre-al dente. As far as avoiding liquid, you really need to use a thick, well-reduced ragù or tomato-based sauce that almost has to be spread on between the layers rather than poured on, as any liquid will just squeeze out with the heating but not evaporate. She may also be making the mistake of using plain ricotta cheese, which has a lot of liquid that separates out, both making the flavor dry but leaving a lot of liquid in the bottom. You really need to use a thick besciamella (white sauce of roux and milk or cream) into which the cheese is melted; this helps set up and maintain consistency without drying out the lasagna. You should also use aged (not fresh) mozzarella, or skip the mozzarella entirely and just used hard cheese like finely grated romano or Parmesan. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/4 "2010-06-14T23:06:43Z")
Ready-bake lasagna noodles. Seriously. It’s an amazing product. Of course, my lasagna was already famously awesome, but ready-bake noodles guarantee the right noodle finish (the way I make 'em, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/5 "2010-06-14T23:10:11Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Me, I like my lasagna soft (not falling apart, but soft enough that you can very easily “cut” a bite-sized chunk off with the side of your fork). I’m curious, now, as to what kind of lasagna you’ve had that isn’t soft enough to cut with a fork. If you’re having to take a steak knife to your lasagna then something is already far wrong. Making lasagna is actually a good exercise in learning various aspects of cooking, because you have to do many different tasks (boiling pasta, grilling, reduction, making a roux, layering, et cetera) and the final product is actually fairly tolerant to variances in the steps, since it usually ends up as a big mess on the plate after the second bite anyway. And yes, the o.p. should definitely start with making her own sauce; a basic tomato sauce from canned whole tomatoes is almost trivial and yet is a vast improvement over jarred sauces like the improperly-named “Ragu” or “Prego”. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/6 "2010-06-14T23:12:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Ready-bake lasagna noodles. > > Seriously. It’s an amazing product. Of course, my lasagna was already famously awesome, but ready-bake noodles guarantee the right noodle finish (the way I make 'em, anyway.) You don’t even need special noodles. You can bake it with regular lasagne noodles and it will work. Just make sure they’re submerged. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/7 "2010-06-14T23:22:47Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > You don’t even need special noodles. You can bake it with regular lasagne noodles and it will work. Just make sure they’re submerged. Yeah, I’ve actually stopped preboiling my noodles to no apparent ill effect (both homemade fresh noodles and dried pasta sheets). I do make the bolognese and bechamel layers a little bit thinner than I normally would, but otherwise use exactly the same recipe and techniques. (And I don’t buy the no-boil type of dried lasagna sheets.) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/8 "2010-06-14T23:33:19Z")
I make the best lasagna the world has ever seen[sup]TM[/sup]. My tips: Reduce, reduce, reduce. You want your ragout to be firm with almost no visible liquid. Trust me, there’s plenty of fluid in there that will come out when you bake it. Layer with **dry** uncooked lasagna sheets (unless you’re making fresh). You do not need to boil those fuckers - they will get plenty cooked. Cover the top of each bechamel layer with fresh spinach and basil leaves - the bechamel will absorb any liquid coming from the foliage. Cover the final noodle layer with a metric shitload of bechamel, then cover the entire top of the bechamel with slices of buffalo mozzarella. That gives bite to the top layer but allows the noodle to soften. Sprinkle over grated parmigiano about 20 minutes before you’re going to take it out of the oven. All of that said, the lasanga I had in Rome was completely unlike the (divine) American version I attempt to emulate. It was cooked individually, dripping wet with fresh smashed plum tomatoes, and really loose, and clearly assembled at the last minute with fresh boiled pasta - and almost certainly not baked, maybe just broiled for a couple of minutes to make the cheese on top bubble. It was fucking awesome. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Winnipeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a8b319/32.png) [@In\_Winnipeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Winnipeg)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/9 "2010-06-15T00:50:08Z")
I’ve never had a problem with lasagna firmness – I always let it sit for about five or six minutes after it comes out of the oven so it “sets”. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/10 "2010-06-15T01:48:59Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > ETA ETA: > > **4. Make it yourself!** Good idea. I’ve been wanting to learn how to cook, and lasagna sounds like a good beginner project. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/11 "2010-06-15T02:04:58Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Good idea. I’ve been wanting to learn how to cook, and lasagna sounds like a good beginner project. Keep it simple. Don’t worry about roux or bechamel or any of that when you’re learning. You need: 1. Goop 2. Cheese 3. Noodles Nothing else. Goop consists of sauce, beef if you want beef (and for me, fuck yeah) and the spices and whatnot of your choice. Your goop should be pretty thick. If you try to make goop out of spaghetti sauce, thicken it with tomato paste, or reduce it. Then add whatever you want. Go crazy. Throw in garlic, onions, parsley, basil, spinach, anything you think would suit your taste. Do not try Aspirin or roofing nails. Keep tasting it and adding more stuff. The cheese comes in two forms: The Gooey White Cheese and the Melty Yellow But Maybe Also White Cheese. Some people prefer their gooey cheese to be ricotta. Others go with high fat cottage cheese. The melty cheese can be most anything but stick with a pasta-friendly cheese. Mozzarella is a safe bet for your first try. Then get noodles. As has been pointed out, boiling the noodles is a waste of time. The moisture in the lasagna will cook them. I think ready-bake works better but whatever. Get a big fucking pan. Put down a layer of goop, then scatter some of your Gooey White Cheese, then a layer of noodles, then shredded yellow cheese. Repeat. You’re probably near the top of the pan. If you aren’t, do another layer. Then on top put a thin layer of sauce on the choose, then more cheese. By the way, this process is way, way more fun if you’re drinking. (One advantage to having ground beef in your recipe is that it makes the process longer, enabling you to drink more.) Put that son of a bitch in the oven at 375 for like 45 minutes, at least. Maybe an hour. Tent it under foil except for the last ten minutes. Remove and let it sit, torturing your guests with its incredibly delicious aroma, for at least twenty minutes. Then chop that bad boy up and serve. Hint; do it right and it’ll taste WAY better the following day when you reheat it in the microwave and eat like a pound of it while watching TV. I’d give you my specific recipe, which varies from my beginner’s guide, but it’s the most important secret on earth. Every single person who has ever eaten my lasagna has pronounced it the best they have ever eaten and in some cases say it’s the best **food** they’ve ever eaten. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/12 "2010-06-15T02:14:19Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/13 "2010-06-15T02:16:54Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I’m curious, now, as to what kind of lasagna you’ve had that isn’t soft enough to cut with a fork. If you’re having to take a steak knife to your lasagna then something is already far wrong. > Stranger I think s/he was saying that lasagne should be soft enough to cut with a fork, but not as soft as to become mushy is the range to aim for. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/14 "2010-06-15T03:10:43Z")
Snipping mine. > [@RickJay](#): > > (and for me, fuck yeah) > Do not try Aspirin or roofing nails. > Get a big fucking pan. > By the way, this process is way, way more fun if you’re drinking. > Put that son of a bitch in the oven at 375 for like 45 minutes, at least. I love you, please write a cookbook. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/15 "2010-06-15T10:01:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Keep it simple. > > Don’t worry about roux or bechamel or any of that when you’re learning. You need: > > 1. Goop > 2. Cheese > 3. Noodles > > Nothing else. > > Goop consists of sauce, beef if you want beef (and for me, fuck yeah) and the spices and whatnot of your choice. Your goop should be pretty thick. If you try to make goop out of spaghetti sauce, thicken it with tomato paste, or reduce it. Then add whatever you want. Go crazy. Throw in garlic, onions, parsley, basil, spinach, anything you think would suit your taste. Do not try Aspirin or roofing nails. Keep tasting it and adding more stuff. > > The cheese comes in two forms: The Gooey White Cheese and the Melty Yellow But Maybe Also White Cheese. Some people prefer their gooey cheese to be ricotta. Others go with high fat cottage cheese. The melty cheese can be most anything but stick with a pasta-friendly cheese. Mozzarella is a safe bet for your first try. > > Then get noodles. As has been pointed out, boiling the noodles is a waste of time. The moisture in the lasagna will cook them. I think ready-bake works better but whatever. > > Get a big fucking pan. Put down a layer of goop, then scatter some of your Gooey White Cheese, then a layer of noodles, then shredded yellow cheese. Repeat. You’re probably near the top of the pan. If you aren’t, do another layer. Then on top put a thin layer of sauce on the choose, then more cheese. By the way, this process is way, way more fun if you’re drinking. (One advantage to having ground beef in your recipe is that it makes the process longer, enabling you to drink more.) > > Put that son of a bitch in the oven at 375 for like 45 minutes, at least. Maybe an hour. Tent it under foil except for the last ten minutes. Remove and let it sit, torturing your guests with its incredibly delicious aroma, for at least twenty minutes. Then chop that bad boy up and serve. > > Hint; do it right and it’ll taste WAY better the following day when you reheat it in the microwave and eat like a pound of it while watching TV. > > I’d give you my specific recipe, which varies from my beginner’s guide, but it’s the most important secret on earth. Every single person who has ever eaten my lasagna has pronounced it the best they have ever eaten and in some cases say it’s the best **food** they’ve ever eaten. I subscribe to this method, but I prefer to double the melty Italian cheeses and omit the goopy ricotta crap. Nice thick, rich meat sauce, noodles, 4 or 5 Italian cheeses and a few sprinkles of Parmesan. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/16 "2010-06-15T13:15:25Z")
I’ve been thinking about making lasagna all last week but didnt’ get chance over the weekend. I may have to cave now, having seen this thread and make some on Saturday now! Like **jjimm** , I simmer the sauce for an age (that’s why it takes me so long). For 4-5 hours. With tomatoes, balsamic vinegar, some red wine (although I need a substitute for that now – any ideas?), garlic, onion. Just let it simmer away for a few hours before making the thing. I’m wondering actually if I can’t make the sauce in my slow cooker… Ooooh… Experiment time! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/17 "2010-06-15T13:40:36Z")
Well, since we’re sharing recipes, [this recipe from Saveur](http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipes/Baked-Spinach-Lasagne) is my go-to for lasagna. It’s a northern Italian (Bologna)-style lasagna with homemade spinach noodles and alternating layers of bolognese and bechamel, with each layer generously sprinkled with parmesan. That recipe advises boiling the noodles before layering – I used to do that, but I don’t anymore, and the recipe works fine. You could use prepackaged noodles, too. Anyhow, the recipe is great just for the meat sauce (the ragu alla bolognese.) The recipe overall is not difficult, but it is time-consuming. The flavors are simple, clean, and bright. If you’re one who doesn’t like the ricotta-based (or, shudder, cottage-cheese-based) lasagnas of the Italian-American and Southern Italian tradition, give this one a shot. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/18 "2010-06-15T14:00:00Z")
> [@Geek\_Mecha](#): > > Snipping mine. > > I love you, please write a cookbook. +1 ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/19 "2010-06-15T14:11:01Z")
Don’t we have a lasagne thread once a year or so? Anyway, my two lira: Fresh noodles don’t need to be boiled. If you have a pasta roller, making them from scratch takes less time than boiling, draining, etc. the rubbery pre-made ones. And you WILL notice the difference. The only way to end is with a top layer of noodles, then a thin layer of sauce, covering every inch of the noodles so they don’t dry out, then grate parmesan over it. The cheese browns nicely, giving a beautiful (and tasty) topping. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217/20 "2010-06-15T16:26:06Z")
You say that like it’s a bad thing, **Quercus** : [2009](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=521505&highlight=Lasagna), [2008](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=491904), [2007](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=447284&highlight=Lasagne), and [2005](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=300105) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-lasagna-like-the-professional-lasagna-makers/543217.md?page=2)