# "Making love to his tonic and gin." And other couplets we never say. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727 "2018-09-04T05:41:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/1 "2018-09-04T05:41:50Z")
I would never say “Dad and Mom,” or “small and big,” or “white and black,” for example. Why do we place things in this order? Pepper and salt Vinegar and salt Ringo, George, Paul and John Why do we do this? ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/2 "2018-09-04T05:50:40Z")
To me it’s Gin and Tonic Salt and Vinegar Salt and Pepper ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/3 "2018-09-04T05:52:34Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > To me it’s > > Gin and Tonic > Salt and Vinegar > Salt and Pepper Exactly my point. Why? ETA: Fork and knife. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/4 "2018-09-04T05:54:22Z")
I note that all of the pairings you list have the one-syllable word first, and the multi-syllable word last. I have no idea if that’s why the preferred order of those couplets are in that order, but maybe there’s something to it. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/5 "2018-09-04T06:09:28Z")
Yes and no Up or down Front to back ETA, this one seems to work either way. Cats and dogs (stretch) Boys and girls Ladies and gentlemen Husband and wife There really is no rhyme or reason. (another). ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/6 "2018-09-04T06:09:43Z")
Fork and knife dad and mom 😕 ETA: That was for Kenobi ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/7 "2018-09-04T06:38:53Z")
When I was small (around five), my parents tell me I used to make a game of reversing a lot of these - pepper and salt, chips and fish, and so on. This came to a head in a cafe by the beach when I asked the waitress where my “fork and knife” was and she thought I’d sworn at her. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/8 "2018-09-04T06:39:43Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > ETA: Fork and knife. No Spoons? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/9 "2018-09-04T06:46:05Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > No Spoons? ☹ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/10 "2018-09-04T06:49:24Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Fork and knife > dad and mom > 😕 > > ETA: That was for Kenobi Yeah, it’s clear that “multi-syllable last” isn’t the sole determinant, since there are lots of one-syllable-and-one-syllable couplets like those. And, as per Beckdawrek’s list, there are at least some that disobey that theory entirely, like “husband and wife.” ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/11 "2018-09-04T07:12:11Z")
“It’s nine o’clock on a Saturday The regular crowd’s smokin’ chronic There’s an old man sitting next to me Makin’ love to his gin and tonic.” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/12 "2018-09-04T07:14:12Z")
yon & hither the why, how, when, what, who and where of it ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/13 "2018-09-04T07:21:09Z")
Yang and yin Forth and back Roll and rock Blues and rythym There must be a hundred of these! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/14 "2018-09-04T07:44:15Z")
One that is awkward is when you have a friend named Jim with whom you somewhile or muchwhile consort. To speak of your combined activities, you would begin with “_Jim and I …_”, but in common speech patterns, it tends to slide into almost “Jiminey”. So, you end up finding ways around that phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/15 "2018-09-04T11:08:20Z")
OP asks “why?” and just about every single response ignores that. Because Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/16 "2018-09-04T11:26:19Z")
It seems to be a combination of putting the important/most popular thing first: Salt and pepper, Gin and tonic, John Paul George Ringo etc. Things that are the de facto name of a genre, which may have more aspects to it but somebody defined a couple of them and it it in the order and it stuck. Rock and Roll, Country and Western etc. Personal experience may differ: White and Black and Dad and Mum both sound fine to me. This doesn’t cover everything though. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/17 "2018-09-04T11:58:58Z")
Fro and to. Yon and hither. You know, the whole caboodle and kit. Shodan, Regards ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/18 "2018-09-04T12:07:36Z")
There is no good answer other than, “just 'cuz.” In Japanese you say “white and black.” ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/19 "2018-09-04T12:22:31Z")
If one ever talks to a Cajun for any length of time, you will probably recognize that, when referring to a quantity of things less than a dozen, but more than a half-dozen, the Cajun will often say “eight or seven” where I find it more common to phrase it “seven or eight”. As in, “Hey, Thibodaux, did you go that Fais do-do at Boudreaux’s Saturday? There musta been eight or seven pirogue boats out behind his place.” ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727/20 "2018-09-04T13:09:03Z")
Interesting you chose the numbers seven and eight. Old Testament writers used to use that to mean (and I quote Holy Scriptures here) “a shitload”. I have a couple of friends who do this, often prefacing it with “Verily”. “Seven times has this happened, even eight…” Here’s the poet who wrote Ecclesiastes: “Cast your bread upon the waters, for after many days you will find it again. Divide your portion among seven, or even eight, for you do not know what disaster may befall the land. If the clouds are full, they will pour out rain upon the earth; whether a tree falls to the south or the north, in the place where it falls, there it will lie.” Deep, maaaan… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-love-to-his-tonic-and-gin-and-other-couplets-we-never-say/820727.md?page=2)