# Making Mountains out of (mole)Hills: A Question of Geographical Definitions
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [July 20, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054 "2004-07-20T19:27:38Z")
**Posts on this page:** 12
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/1 "2004-07-20T19:27:38Z")
So, due to the torrential rains we’ve been receiving, I noticed that a pond off a nearby road has flooded over and across the street. This got me to thinking: what’s the difference, by geographical definition, of a pond and a lake? When does a hill become a mountain? What’s the technical definition of a stream versus a brook versus a run versus a creek? Is there a pecking order? When does a creek become a river? Is it based on flow, volume, width, depth? Is there a standards board for such things?
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/2 "2004-07-20T20:52:16Z")
From the [USGS Frequently Asked Questions](http://interactive2.usgs.gov/faq/list_faq_by_category/get_answer.asp?id=787):
> [@](#):
>
> Question: What is the difference between “mountain,” “hill,” and “peak”; “lake” and “pond”; or “river” and “creek”?
>
> There are **no** official definitions for generic terms as applied to geographic names. Every organization will have a definition that is application driven, and no one office definition is accepted as official. The difference is thematic and beyond that it is highly perceptive. The difference between lake and pond is an example. We, at the USGS Geographic Names Office, in developing the Geographic Names Information System (GNIS) database, have devised 63 broad categories of feature types with definitions solely to facilitate retrieval of entries with similar characteristics. So, we define lake as “natural body of inland water,” and not necessarily applicable to another’s needs. We have found 54 different generic terms that have characteristics similar to our definition of lake, but all are classified as lake. The only area of general agreement is that perceptibly, a pond is smaller than a lake, but even this is not always true.
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### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2004, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/3 "2004-07-21T01:32:10Z")
I found the definitive answer in Merriam-Webster’s \*Collegiate[/].
mountain - “A landmass that projects conspicuously above its surroundings and is higher than a hill.”
hill - “A usu. rounded elevation of land lower than a mountain.”
And that’s final. You have Merriam-Webster’s word on it.
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### Author:  [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2004, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/4 "2004-07-21T11:07:21Z")
Thank you both for your answers, however you can see how neither answer is particularly satisfying and both are a bit of a cop out. You expect those sorts of shennanigans from M-W, but the USGS answer seemed particularly beauracratic.
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### Author:  [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2004, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/5 "2004-07-21T11:14:29Z")
I’ve just had a look at the Ordnance Survey website for the UK, and they state that there’s no precise international definition of a mountain. However, in England, Wales, and Scotland, the minimum height of a mountain is agreed to be 2000 feet (610m). But then things get messy. Some say that a mountain needs a definite peak, others claim that all summits over this height should be mountains. Its confusing, certainly. [Link](http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/freefun/geofacts/)
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### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2004, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/6 "2004-07-21T12:03:31Z")
[QUOTE=Angua]
Some say that a mountain needs a definite peak, QUOTE]
Merriam-Webster says that a “definite peak” = whatever is not an “indefinite peak.” 😉
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### Author:  [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2004, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/7 "2004-07-21T12:24:29Z")
> [@David Simmons](#):
>
> Merriam-Webster says that a “definite peak” = whatever is not an “indefinite peak.” 😉
Surely a peak will be well, peaky?
😉
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### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2004, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/8 "2004-07-21T12:34:40Z")
> [@Angua](#):
>
> Surely a peak will be well, peaky?
> 😉
Peaky!? Boo.
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### Author:  [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/9 "2004-07-21T12:39:36Z")
> [@David Simmons](#):
>
> Peaky!? Boo.
:eek:
But seriously, by “having a definite peak” they mean something along the lines of “it actually looks like a mountain, as opposed to say an elevated plain.”
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### Author:  [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/10 "2004-07-21T12:49:51Z")
I’ve found that it differs a lot from region to region. I’m in Colorado. In-laws in Pennsylvania laugh at what we call a stream or river. And we laugh at what they call a mountain.
There is a rule to defining two different peaks. I believe the saddle has to be at least 200’ lower than either peak.
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/11 "2004-07-21T13:33:01Z")
> [@enipla](#):
>
> There is a rule to defining two different peaks. I believe the saddle has to be at least 200’ lower than either peak.
In the east, for the NH and ADK 4000’ers there must be a 200’ saddle to the col. But out west they generally use 300’ for the peaks. In AK the number is 500’ I think. But all of those are for peakbagging lists, in general use they simply do not apply.
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### Author:  [@micco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/micco)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills-a-question-of-geographical-definitions/256054/12 "2004-07-21T14:24:46Z")
> [@enipla](#):
>
> I’m in Colorado. In-laws in Pennsylvania laugh at what we call a stream or river.
IIRC, you’re overlooking the Blue River only a few miles from its source. It qualifies as little more than a stream by any standard. But if we held to strict naming standards, it would have to change names two or three times as it winds through Summit County. Then we could make all those businesses with Blue River in their name change to Blue Brook if they’re too far south.