# Making the Case for the Death Penalty (RO) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 25, 2008, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417 "2008-11-25T13:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/61 "2008-11-29T09:18:44Z")
Nah, fuck the whole thing. I say “when in doubt, execute”. It is not like we have a shortage of people. Too crazy to function, execute. Too “evil” to be out, execute. White collar crimes, execute. Violate parole, execute. We will soon get to the point when we need to change tack and stop executing people in order to preserve the species, but right now there is way too many people around and there is no point in trying to drag dead weight around. Will injustices happen? sure, price of progress. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/62 "2008-11-29T13:21:51Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > Nah, fuck the whole thing. I say “when in doubt, execute”. It is not like we have a shortage of people. Too crazy to function, execute. Too “evil” to be out, execute. White collar crimes, execute. Violate parole, execute. > > We will soon get to the point when we need to change tack and stop executing people in order to preserve the species, but right now there is way too many people around and there is no point in trying to drag dead weight around. > > Will injustices happen? sure, price of progress. To those who say, “Well, it’s worth executing innocent people,” I always reply, “Are _you_ willing to be that innocent person?” ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/63 "2008-11-29T13:28:22Z")
I’m only in favor of executing people who commit multi-murders–those like Ted Bundy and whoever killed Nicole & Ron (snicker), or those like Timothy McVeigh. If there is ample physical evidence that one person committed multiple, heinous murders, they have no right to breath the air. I went with a cop for ten years, met many many cops, and all of them–the people who deal with these people–agree that the death penalty is valid in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/64 "2008-11-29T13:36:01Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > Nah, fuck the whole thing. I say “when in doubt, execute”. It is not like we have a shortage of people. Too crazy to function, execute. Too “evil” to be out, execute. White collar crimes, execute. Violate parole, execute. > > We will soon get to the point when we need to change tack and stop executing people in order to preserve the species, but right now there is way too many people around and there is no point in trying to drag dead weight around. > > Will injustices happen? sure, price of progress. Killing innocents isn’t “progress”. And by what logic does a society like your hypothetical one that has no problem executing innocent people condemn people for murder ? Arguments like yours are another reason I oppose the death penalty. Sooner or later, it always seems to come out that it’s supporters simply don’t care if they kill innocents. They just want to kill someone. Anyone. ---
**Author:** ![shallora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@shallora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shallora)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/65 "2008-11-29T13:57:51Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Of course if someone can provide me with a few hundred examples of serial killers, serial rapists or pedophiles who later became valuable members of society, I will happily reconsider this position. I say, name me just one! Here’s a link anyone against the death penalty must read: [http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:Ae9O-DZfPHkJ:freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2136637/posts+Campbell+executed+in+Kentucky&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us](http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:Ae9O-DZfPHkJ:freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2136637/posts+Campbell+executed+in+Kentucky&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us) In cases like this, I would have personally volunteered to plunge the terminal drugs into the killer’s arm. Gleefully. ---
**Author:** ![shallora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@shallora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shallora)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/66 "2008-11-29T14:17:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I oppose the death penalty. Sooner or later, it always seems to come out that it’s supporters simply don’t care if they kill innocents. They just want to kill someone. Anyone. Really? Is that what you really believe? Are you really that shallow in thought? A man, Marco Allen Chapman, negotiates his way into a woman’s house using lies and with malicious intentions. He ties her up, rapes her, stabs her with kitchen knives – returning to the kitchen several times for new knives after breaking the first ones off into the woman’s side. The woman’s three children wake up, hearing something, and while the woman lies helpless, she hears the screams as Chapman stabs to death her children in the other room. Chapman flees, leaving them all for dead. The woman, crawling over her dead son, makes her way to a neighbors house and somehow survives, later identifying Chapman as the attacker and killer. Chapman – perhaps realizing he’s not going to talk his way out of this one – admits to the incident and does not fight the death penalty. Chapman was killed in Kenucky this month by lethal injection. Ladies and gentlemen, THIS is the perfect case for the death penalty. A horrible crime involving torture, rape, and the death of children. A killer with the mental capacity to stand trial and fully admits guilt. A killer who later admits there’s nothing to be done with him other than lethal injection. Mr Der Trihs: Would you say we could “rehabilitate” that SOB Chapman? Would it be even possible? Would you EVER be comfortable with a SOB like Chapman ever being released again? Would you instead waste the money to keep that SOB alive for 70 years in prison – where he will die anyway – when he didn’t give the same value of life to three young children and their mother? I don’t “just want to kill someone. Anyone.” I’m a family man myself, and when/if you have children of your own, and you hear about SOB’s like Marco Allen Chapman in the world, your natural instincts of justice and protection kick in to high gear. The world is a better place with Marco Allen Chapmen no longer in it. As a dad myself, I sleep a little better knowing that SOB’s like him don’t get a pass to live a full life when they do horrific crimes like he did. That’s all I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/67 "2008-11-29T15:52:32Z")
Again, I’m well aware that there are horrible people in the world. I’ve no love for the BTK killer, Ted Bundy, Paul Bernardo, Richard Kuklinski or anyone of that ilk. I’d be perfectly happy with them dying a slow and painful death and agree that it’s the least they deserve. Thus please do not try to convince me about the death penalty by brining up horrible crimes. I’m read about a lot of them and am as enraged as anyone else. The problem is that the death penalty is not administered by a being of god-like perfection with complete factual knowledge and moral clarity. It’s administered by deeply fallible and often corrupt governments. It’s carried out by politicians anxious to appear “tough on crime” and those appointed by said politicians. So eventually it’s not just the worst of the worst who get executed. It’s not just the so-called poster boys for execution. It’s sometimes the driver of the getaway car who gets the needle while the actual shooter pleads out. It’s a minority who gets the needle while a white convict doesn’t. And sometimes it’s someone who’s factually innocent of the crimes they’ve been convicted of. As **Der Trihs** said, it’s astonishing that people who won’t trust the government to spend our tax dollars efficiently are cheerfully willing to give it the power of life and death. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/68 "2008-11-29T15:57:17Z")
Ann Rule, who knew Ted Bundy when he was commiting serial murders (but before he was a suspect), originally did not believe in the death penalty and tried to save Bundy’s life twice. However, she eventually realized that he was guilty, he would kill again if he ever got out, and he deserved to be killed for society’s sake The case that turned her around was [Charles Rodman Campbell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Rodman_Campbell), who broke into a woman’s house and raped her. When he and the neighbor who helped her after the incident had the gall to testify against him at his rape trial, he swore revenge. After serving six and a half years, Campbell tracked down his victim, killed her, the neighbor and the victim’s _six year old daugther_. How and WHY would you think a shit like that could be rehabilitated?? He was executed 12 years after the three murders. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/69 "2008-11-29T16:00:44Z")
> [@shallora](#): > > Really? Is that what you really believe? Are you really that shallow in thought? No. I simply listen to people. Did you bother to read the post I was responding to ? > [@shallora](#): > > Ladies and gentlemen, THIS is the perfect case for the death penalty. And it’s a good rule of thumb that extreme cases - like “perfect” ones - make for bad law. > [@shallora](#): > > Mr Der Trihs: Would you say we could “rehabilitate” that SOB Chapman? Would it be even possible? Would you EVER be comfortable with a SOB like Chapman ever being released again? No. Just keep him in prison till he dies. > [@shallora](#): > > Would you instead waste the money to keep that SOB alive for 70 years in prison – where he will die anyway – when he didn’t give the same value of life to three young children and their mother? Since that ( if part of a general ban on executions ) will remove the risk of innocents being executed, yes. THAT is valuing people’s lives - not an execution after the fact. > [@shallora](#): > > I don’t “just want to kill someone. Anyone.” I’m a family man myself, and when/if you have children of your own, and you hear about SOB’s like Marco Allen Chapman in the world, your natural instincts of justice and protection kick in to high gear. > > The world is a better place with Marco Allen Chapmen no longer in it. As a dad myself, I sleep a little better knowing that SOB’s like him don’t get a pass to live a full life when they do horrific crimes like he did. That’s all I’m saying. Because you don’t think that YOU are the one who’ll get railroaded on false or mistaken evidence to the death chamber. And it’s not being an “S.O.B.” that gets you executed; it’s your economic class and race and gender and who you are accused of killing, more than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![shallora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@shallora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shallora)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/70 "2008-11-29T16:43:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because you don’t think that YOU are the one who’ll get railroaded on false or mistaken evidence to the death chamber. And it’s not being an “S.O.B.” that gets you executed; it’s your economic class and race and gender and who you are accused of killing, more than anything else. Oh be still my bleading heart: A mother-raper and child-killer like Marco Allan Chapman has been executed, but the first thing Der Trihs wants to know is "what was his socio-economic background compared to the Da-Da-esque peringiostacy of the auto-centric mindset of the political structure of the working class pergenitive of early 21st Century historical context of the . . . " F\*ck any of that. Why can’t you just admit that SOB’s like Chapman – who ADMIT to the crime and WANT to die – should indeed deserve it! BTW, for your information Chapman was white, middle-class American male and a professed Christian, too. If he were hispanic and did the same thing, should we somehow excuse his crimes? Puh-lease. And besides, isn’t him being a white middle-class Christian male exactly the type of person all you Libs are trying to erradicate from the earth, anyway? If anything you should be celebrating his death because America is 1 less white male this week. Isn’t that what you Libs are ulitmately after, anyway? The extinction of the white male from the Earth? Yeah sure you can talk about “well we need to make sure the makeup of death row is perfectly representational of society as a whole blah blah blah blah” but that ignores the basic fact that – like it or not – the most horrific of domestic crimes are NOT committed by 55-year-old white-female Fortune 500 CEO’s or 70-year-old Japanese grandmother housekeepers. (side note: Why aren’t there any 70-year-old Japanese grandmothers on death row! IT’S NOT FAIR!) I’m simply saying that when I see cases like Marco Allen Chapman, it makes me proud that we still have the death penalty around. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/71 "2008-11-29T17:05:18Z")
> [@shallora](#): > > Oh be still my bleading heart: A mother-raper and child-killer like Marco Allan Chapman has been executed, but the first thing Der Trihs wants to know is "what was his socio-economic background compared to the Da-Da-esque peringiostacy of the auto-centric mindset of the political structure of the working class pergenitive of early 21st Century historical context of the . . . " Um, no. I didn’t say anything like that. > [@shallora](#): > > Why can’t you just admit that SOB’s like Chapman – who ADMIT to the crime and WANT to die – should indeed deserve it! Because I don’t care about such a freakish case, I don’t care if they deserve it or not, and I don’t want to use it to excuse the killing of innocents. How MANY people on death row are like that ? > [@shallora](#): > > BTW, for your information Chapman was white, middle-class American male and a professed Christian, too. If he were hispanic and did the same thing, should we somehow excuse his crimes? Puh-lease. Typical of death penalty supporters; you love to pretend that opponents want to release every criminal. And my point was that someone of the “wrong” race or gender or economic background is mmuch more likely to be FALSLY accused, and someone of the “right” background won’t even be considered for the death penalty. > [@shallora](#): > > And besides, isn’t him being a white middle-class Christian male exactly the type of person all you Libs are trying to erradicate from the earth, anyway? If anything you should be celebrating his death because America is 1 less white male this week. Isn’t that what you Libs are ulitmately after, anyway? The extinction of the white male from the Earth? :rolleyes: No. > [@shallora](#): > > Yeah sure you can talk about “well we need to make sure the makeup of death row is perfectly representational of society as a whole blah blah blah blah” but that ignores the basic fact that – like it or not – the most horrific of domestic crimes are NOT committed by 55-year-old white-female Fortune 500 CEO’s or 70-year-old Japanese grandmother housekeepers. Odds are that a “Fortune 500 CEO” would get away with it, possibly with the collaboration of the police. And a 70 year old is probably too frail. And it doesn’t matter the crime; what matters are the victim, your race, your gender, and most of all your bank account. A white woman will get psychiatric care for a crime that would get a poor black man the death penalty - not to mention a trial with a public defender who’s quite possibly drunk or asleep during the trial. > [@shallora](#): > > I’m simply saying that when I see cases like Marco Allen Chapman, it makes me proud that we still have the death penalty around. And if we execute some innocent guy, he’s just acceptable losses, right ? As long as he’s not you. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/72 "2008-11-29T21:05:51Z")
We have killed a lot of innocent people with the death penalty. That is completely unacceptable. It makes us barbarians. We must stop it. The death penalty does not cut murders. It does not make us safer. Murderers should spend the rest of their lives in jail getting analyzed by shrinks. When they die they should be autipsied to see if their are physical problem involved. Killing people is against my religious upbringing. It does not make sense. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/73 "2008-11-29T21:26:31Z")
> [@Ensign\_Edison](#): > > The problem is that the above is not possible to establish as fact. You state it as if we all just know it’s true, and also that which criminals have abrogated their humanity (making it moral to kill them) will be obvious to everyone. I see that you acknowledge the failure of the system to deal death in a just way, but I’m curious what system you imagine that could do any better at deciding objectively when a human being has become an animal? So far it seems like the various ways people have tried to do that through history have gone, to put it mildly, a bit sour. > > And I’m not sure I agree with your assumptions regardless, but it would make for a better GD thread, the idea of whether a single act can invalidate any future behavior on the part of a person. I’m not even sure that I agree with my argument, but I do think it is a credible philosophical argument. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/74 "2008-11-29T21:59:32Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > To those who say, “Well, it’s worth executing innocent people,” I always reply, “Are _you_ willing to be that innocent person?” If I went through the criminal justice system and was found to be guilty of a capital crime, then sure. No system is perfect. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/75 "2008-11-30T00:37:02Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > If I went through the criminal justice system and was found to be guilty of a capital crime, then sure. No system is perfect. Indeed, but the system should _strive to be_ perfect, and should seek to not further compound the severity of its mistakes. The whole reason we have an appeals process is because we acknowledge that the system is not perfect. In order to make good use of the appeals process, though, one needs to still be alive. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/76 "2008-11-30T01:12:37Z")
> [@shallora](#): > > I say, name me just one! > > Here’s a link anyone against the death penalty must read: > [http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:Ae9O-DZfPHkJ:freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2136637/posts+Campbell+executed+in+Kentucky&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us](http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:Ae9O-DZfPHkJ:freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2136637/posts+Campbell+executed+in+Kentucky&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us) > > In cases like this, I would have personally volunteered to plunge the terminal drugs into the killer’s arm. Gleefully. Um, I’m not even going to bother addressing someone who uses _FREE REPUBLIC_ for a cite. > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Ann Rule, who knew Ted Bundy when he was commiting serial murders (but before he was a suspect), originally did not believe in the death penalty and tried to save Bundy’s life twice. However, she eventually realized that he was guilty, he would kill again if he ever got out, and he deserved to be killed for society’s sake Who said he’s going to get out? What about Charles Manson? He’s not going to get the death penalty? And despite his “parole hearings” (which I believe are really only a farce), that man is going to die behind bars. What’s this, “if he/she ever gets out?” bullshit? KEEP THEM BEHIND BARS, you morons! IF we could guarantee, 100 and 10%, that said person was absolutely, positively, guilty, and as heinous as these people are, I’d probably say, go for it-in special cases. But that’s not how the death penalty is used in our nation, and therefore, it’s unacceptable. Any innocent is one innocent too many. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/77 "2008-11-30T01:25:57Z")
Every trial is supposed to prove beyond doubt that the accused was guilty. We have executed a lot of innocent men. One is too many. You can not find a case that is so horrible that I will agree to the death penalty. I am not for executing Manson. Just leave his sorry ass in jail until he dies. In a way ,that is a death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/78 "2008-12-01T17:58:02Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > If I went through the criminal justice system and was found to be guilty of a capital crime, then sure. No system is perfect. Sorry, gonna have to call bullshit on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/79 "2008-12-01T18:07:15Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Sorry, gonna have to call bullshit on this one. Did I say I would like it? Not at all and I would use every legal means to have it not happen. (As **LilShieste** noted, that’s why we have appeals) But I can hardly say that I believe capital punishment is a valid tool if I’m going to be asked to go against that belief just because it might be used on me. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417/80 "2008-12-03T19:34:20Z")
> [@sinical\_brit](#): > > Yeh - regardless of whys, whats and whens, we need only look at a grainy cctv image of him to decide that due to the fact he was there holding a gun and has ‘eeevil’ eyes, he should be executed. He was one of the terrorists in the Mumbai attacks, do we need a “why, what, and when?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/making-the-case-for-the-death-penalty-ro/474417.md?page=5)