I am a big fan of the death penalty for those people who deserve it and if I were in charge of it I could guarantee that no innocent man or woman would be executed, but I would also be executing lots more people than murderers.
Josef Fritzl would be long gone by now.
Those people who deserve it are generally individuals who repeatedly infringe the sovereignty of other people’s persons - repeat murderers, rapists and pedophiles.
Of course if someone can provide me with a few hundred examples of serial killers, serial rapists or pedophiles who later became valuable members of society, I will happily reconsider this position.
I oppose the death penalty because I simply don’t trust the government enough. I think it’s rather bizarre that so many people who won’t trust the government to be honest or competent about money have complete trust in it when it comes to killing.
That seems simplistic for a question that involves killing humans. “We” don’t put down vicious dogs or criminals – veterinarians and the state do. The decision to put down an animal is usually uncomplicated, because there’s clear evidence of good reasons to do so. It’s not mired in a legal system full of corruption and unconscious bias which tends to “put down” the poorest, least privileged “vicious dogs” and let the rich ones off easy…or sometimes put them in charge.
You can’t divorce the death penalty from the systemic methods used to enact it, and the questions which arise around those are a lot more complex and morally charged than the decision to shoot a rabid dog.
Are you suggesting that some people should be executed because they might get someone on the outside to carry out a crime? Couldn’t you just stop their phone calls and visits if they were that dangerous? After all, aren’t those two things meant to be priveliges, or are they actually a prisoners right now?
Really, prison is probably the closest (legal) approximation to what he put his family through. The isolation in a confined space, at least. The systemic abuse, well, one can only hope.
I’m pretty sure people have managed to coordinate murders from prison, so it’s not some crazy hypothetical. And I’m not suggesting they might; I’m saying that in some cases, we could not be sure that we would be able to prevent them from getting something out.
‘Evil’ is too easy a getout.
Do you not think that serial killers might have something wrong with them ?
How about the crazy? Do they all get to die too? How do you know they truely are guilty if they are too mad to stand trial ?
What about the grey areas ? 16yr old shags a 15yr old. Hang 'em ?
Bingo. I’m not against the death penalty because I have any sympathy for serial killers and depraved criminals. I’m against it because it is a grim and terrible power to give to the state, one which will be applied at best incompetently and at worst malevolently.
We eat cows, so we should eat people.
We neuter cats, so we should neuter people.
We do biomedial research on monkeys, so we should do biomedical research on people.
etc.
You know what, fuck the grey areas. Should a pedophile who, say, fondles a bunch of clothed little kids without really hurting them be considered an irredeemable fiend with nothing to offer society? I’m a natural born Pitizen, I’m all for RO, but I think elevating “pedophile” to the level of “serial killer” without any preconditions is pushing it. And that’s why the death penalty scares me, in part. Hysteria can pervert justice even faster than money and power.Remember the McMartins. Human beings have way too long a history of burning witches for me to ever be comfortable with leaving life and death decisions in the hands of we the people.
I don’t know about eating people, but I know plenty of people who should be neutered and plenty of others who would better serve society as research subjects.
Antinor01, are you being glib, or are you saying that we should write laws to make it permissible to neuter certain groups of people, and use other people as research subjects?
If you’re just trying to be funny, then never mind. If the latter, what categories of people do you suggest? What kind of research?
Some of us take no pleasure from revenge. Killing an evil person does not appeal to my sense of justice. I feel debased when the death penalty is exacted. I think we as a society are diminished.
These people are sick or abnormal. A healthy person would not do such a thing. A healthy society would not kill in a perverted sense of justice.Until we quit acting on base instinct we will not evolve.
Mostly being glib. On a partially serious point, Gov Jindal signed a law to chemically castrate sex offenders. I am aware it’s not quite the same thing of course but we do have people who are ok with ‘neutering’ certain groups of people. (temporarily in this case)
I haven’t thought about it all that much. (it’s not really the sort of topic one tends to ponder)
For a quick, non-binding answer I would say that personally I think there are a lot of people that have no business reproducing and we could quite possibly be better off if they were incapable of doing so. But from a ‘let’s write a law’ standpoint I don’t think so.
OK then. I just wish that there would be a little more thought put into these off-the-cuff comments concerning people’s rights. (I saw a lot of unthinking ideas thrown out during the time when people were discussing Proposition 8 in California, for example.)
Sorry about that then. I was viewing your first post as a rhetorical question in a pit thread. It was not my intention to make a serious proposal for state policy.
It was a rhetorical question. I didn’t expect someone to say “well I think some people should be neutered” or “I think we should perform medical experiments on humans” but then I forgot this is the internet where any point of view will have its adherents.
You’ve never heard of murder-for-hire? Or hell, the mafia? People arrange for others to commit crimes for them all the time. Or else, they can be dangerous to other prisoners.
Oh, and ditto what Larry Borgia and Der Trihs (!) said about the DP. We as human beings are way too faillible.
That, and sometimes, I feel it’s almost letting them off too easy, if you would imagine. Make them work for the rest of their lives-don’t they usually put prisoners to work? (The whole “license plate” joke?) I can’t imagine how horrid it would be to spend my life in prison. I think I’d rather be put to death.
So while, on one hand, there are cases where I’m really indifferent to the fact that they were executed (Ted Bundy, for one), I can’t get behind it, or support it, either.