# Makomati ruins in South Africa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 16, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/makomati-ruins-in-south-africa/463884 "2008-09-16T19:59:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Schnookered](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@Schnookered](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnookered)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/makomati-ruins-in-south-africa/463884/1 "2008-09-16T19:59:00Z")
Hi, folks- I came across this link on one Amazing News site or another: [http://makomati.com/](http://makomati.com/) Short version: there’s a network of ancient ruins in southern Africa, stretching from South Africa to Kenya. Their opening claim is that they represent the oldest surviving man made structures currently known, one of which appears to function as a calendar. Claims beyond that start rubbing the skeptical kitty the wrong way, beginning with the statement that these artifacts are 75,000 years old (or possibly older). It appears this site is almost brand new news: Googling “makomati” yields fewer than 1,000 results. Does anyone have the straight dope? -Schnookie ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/makomati-ruins-in-south-africa/463884/2 "2008-09-18T17:30:33Z")
I don’t have the whole straight dope on this, but I can tell you that there has been virtually no media attention to this here in South Africa. Reputable archaeologists and historians here regard Dr Hromnik, who seems to be the scientist behind this, as completely wrong in his theories. (I don’t have an internet cite for my claim, unfortunately, so take its worth for what you will.) This new project seems to me to be essentially an attempt to appeal to the “historians-are-covering-up-the-_real_-history” market and sell tours to them. BTW: long-time lurker, first-time poster here. Hi! ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/makomati-ruins-in-south-africa/463884/3 "2008-09-18T17:41:54Z")
It has all the hallmarks of a pseudo-archeological BS to me. Of course there are very real ancient ruins throughout southern Africa, the largest of which being [Great Zimbabwe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Zimbabwe). But this kind of far fetched theory does not explain them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/makomati-ruins-in-south-africa/463884/4 "2008-09-18T21:13:49Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > I don’t have the whole straight dope on this, but I can tell you that there has been virtually no media attention to this here in South Africa. Reputable archaeologists and historians here regard Dr Hromnik, who seems to be the scientist behind this, as completely wrong in his theories. At least this site isn’t also pushing his discredited Khoi-India link. I’ve had fat chats with archeologist friends at UCT about this dude. Suffice to say he’s not well thought-of > [@](#): > > This new project seems to me to be essentially an attempt to appeal to the “historians-are-covering-up-the-_real_-history” market and sell tours to them. That’s what it looks like to me. Oh, and coffeetable books with aerial photos of abandoned cattle kraals in them. > [@](#): > > BTW: long-time lurker, first-time poster here. Hi! Hey yourself. Whereabouts are you, city, S’burbs or behind the Boerewors Gordyn? Obs guy here. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/makomati-ruins-in-south-africa/463884/5 "2008-09-18T22:09:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > At least this site isn’t also pushing his discredited Khoi-India link. I’ve had fat chats with archeologist friends at UCT about this dude. Suffice to say he’s not well thought-of. Yeah, I was wondering how he could reconcile this new thing with the old “everything in Africa came from India” idea. My uncle’s an ex-UCT archaeologist, and he just laughs (or sometimes groans) when you mention ol’ Cyril. > [@](#): > > That’s what it looks like to me. Oh, and coffeetable books with aerial photos of abandoned cattle kraals in them. That’s exactly what I thought - when I read the bit where it says “When historians first stumbled upon these structures they simply assumed that they were cattle kraal left behind by the Bantu people as they moved south…” my first thought was “Yes, and it looks like their assumption was right.” 😃 > [@](#): > > Hey yourself. Whereabouts are you, city, S’burbs or behind the Boerewors Gordyn? Obs guy here. Rosebank now - UCT student. Previously Pinelands. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/makomati-ruins-in-south-africa/463884/6 "2008-09-18T22:13:02Z")
Oh, and there’s this: > [@](#): > > Many of them have almost completely eroded or have been covered by the movement of soil, while some have survived and still display the great sizes of the original walls that stand 2,5 metres high and over a metre wide in places. Prof Guy Charlesworth of Wits University concurs that if these were the original heights of some of the walls, it would have taken thousands of years to erode to knee-height through the effects of nature alone. I think there’s a couple of flaws in this theory. Firstly, how can he know that the walls that are knee-height were originally 2.5m - not all walls are the same height! Secondly, why haven’t these walls that are still 2.5m high also eroded if they’re so old? Thirdly, how can he be sure that “nature alone” was the only force? After all, the rocks could have been removed to be used in other buildings. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/898d66/32.png) [@Mycroft\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_H)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/makomati-ruins-in-south-africa/463884/7 "2008-09-19T04:35:02Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > Firstly, how can he know that the walls that are knee-height were originally 2.5m. Oh come now. Don’t you know anything? They had to have been 2.5 metres high to at the time he claims they were built so that they could erode at the rate he claims and result in knee-high walls today. Q.E.D .\* 😃 (\* And I don’t mean the doper by that name. BTW, welcome to the posting-world.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/makomati-ruins-in-south-africa/463884/8 "2008-09-20T15:46:29Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > Rosebank now - UCT student. Previously Pinelands. Right - with grimpixie back from the UK, it’s time for a mini-CapeOfGoodDopeFest, I think. I nominate Forries. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/makomati-ruins-in-south-africa/463884/9 "2008-11-07T08:38:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Right - with grimpixie back from the UK, it’s time for a mini-CapeOfGoodDopeFest, I think. > > I nominate Forries. I’m up for it - this is the first time a vanity search has actually resulted in anything worthwhile!! **MrDibble** , Why did I think you lived out near Darling?? As to the OP - my BS alarm went off at this (bolding mine): “There is an overwhelming consensus by scholars, academics **and even mystics** that southern Africa is the cradle of humankind…” Grim