# Malacandra deserves his own thread. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 6, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512 "2003-03-06T16:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/101 "2003-03-13T15:31:42Z")
I’m just here to help **Malacandra** crack his 100 post mark in his first (and IMNSHO undeserved) pitting. I hope he returns the favor when I get my first pitting. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/102 "2003-03-13T15:45:11Z")
**Homebrew** , **Kalhoun** , et al.: It’s time to grow up. And part of growing up is developing a thick skin. My god, I may well have been out longer than you’ve been alive (20 years as of this fall, and I don’t know your age); one of the things I’ve learned is that harsh words are simply not worth getting offended at. When I was 15, yes, I got offended. And when I was 22. But once you get even a little bit older and have even a little bit more life experience, you start to realize that it’s _not worth it_. You start to realize that sucking up and ignoring things is the only way human beings can reasonably expect to deal with one another when they have diametrically opposing views. And, of course, that isn’t even the case here. Sucking up and ignoring minor slights in the context of someone who’s _not directly endangering you_ or who (on the whole) \* might even be on your side\* is still more important. The sort of attack you’ve started here is guaranteed to make an enemy when none need be made, and that is supremely wasteful. It’s only worth getting worried about words when they are about to become merged with actions - and of course even then it’s not the words themselves that are the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/103 "2003-03-13T16:27:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Racer1 \* > \*\*For the record, I also got the humour **Malacandra** intended with his Sir Ian “ravi” remark, but I’m not certain I can lay claim to a great sense of humour so YMMV. 😉 \*\* That’s not my impression. However, I’ll concede that my homophobia meter may have been set too sensitive since I was already annoyed by his apparent misogyny. I’ll withdraw the charge of homophobia and acknowledge that I may have misinterpreted his humour. I’ll also commend his ability obfusicate and derail this thread to avoid directly addressing the major complaint that I had. He has yet to clarify what he meant by “pussification” and repeatedly has shown that he holds women to be less beneficial to society. > [@](#): > > That women have done the housework and the childcare has freed up men to innovate, explore, and generally do a lot of hard work, true; but it is jumping the gun to call that “the only reason that the big wins are down to men”. Men might equally well have just used it as an excuse to sit on their big behinds and do nothing at all. You have to give some credit to men’s get-up-and-go for the current wealth of the society you live in. > [@](#): > > _addressing the now banned Blue John_ > I believe that in taking the extreme stance that you have chosen, you obscure the justice of some of the better points that you make: the inequitable and iniquitous sex bias in health spending, for instance, where you quite rightly point out that disproportionate amounts are spent on women’s health issues while men’s health issues (that occasion at least as much loss of life) go under-funded and under-reported. I’d like a cite for that since I seem to recall that the Women’s Health Initiative was started in 1992 to make up the gap in research which was skewed towards men. For instance, in 1990, the Government Accounting Office criticized the National Institute of Health for “excluding women from most studies involving diseases, treatments, and drug effects and for devoting only 13% of its research funds to women.” (Fletcher, C., Health and Gender Differences , 1996) And just to clarify for Mala’s benefit, I’m male. _on preview_ **OxyMoron** , I detest your condescending “grow up” comment. I have a sufficiently thick skin. And I disagree with your “suck it up” attitude. If noone complains, then it never gets better. I won’t go so far as to compare complaining about the issue on a message board to Stonewall, but “suck it up” didn’t work for them and we’re all better for it. While this is certainly a much smaller issue than police harassment, the fact remains that taking your lumps and keeping quiet about it just lets the harassment continue. The purpose of this thread was to discuss these issues, I’m not home crying over the comments of some stranger half a world away. But I’ll take issue with it and invite a discussion of the offense. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/104 "2003-03-13T17:01:43Z")
Many, many, _many_ moons ago, I remember a speech where Carly Simon said (not an exact quote): If men got breast cancer, there’d already be a cure. My reply, not heard by Ms. Simon, was (exact quote), “Like the one we have for prostate cancer?” I don’t see _misogyny_ in **Malacandra** ’s posts, even though I don’t necessarily agree with them. You ( **Homebrew** ) lost the fight the second you threw around that and the homophobe insults. Classic overreaction - one might think you studied from **EasyPhil**. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/105 "2003-03-13T18:54:33Z")
**Homebrew** , you may detest my attitude all your little heart desires - your posts only confirm that you have earned it. The whole point is that you must pick your battles, and you seem to lack either the maturity or the historical perspective to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/106 "2003-03-13T18:58:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Racer1 \* > \*\*Just to back up **Malacandra**. I’m a Brit, and “shirtlifter” is more in the “friend of Dorothy” category here, rather than malicious (though I’m not gay and can’t really tell people what offends them, I suppose). > \*\* As a Londoner, you have no ground to stand on when describing British Culture. Only a Texan like **Homebrew** may speak for England! ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/107 "2003-03-13T19:32:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OxyMoron \* > \*\ ***Homebrew** , you may detest my attitude all your little heart desires - your posts only confirm that you have earned it. The whole point is that you must pick your battles, and you seem to lack either the maturity or the historical perspective to do so. \*\* In what way? Just because a battle is one you would choose to ignore doesn’t make you right. If you take the time to actually read my posts, you’ll see that I asked for clarification before I made any determination. If Mala was interested in a meaningful discussion then he would have clarified when first asked rather than counter with blather and misdirection. I’m not trying to make this out to be more than it is and your asinine comments to me questioning my “maturity” seem intended to provoke and I question your motive. If you think I should “suck it up” fine, express your opinion. But I really have to wonder about your maturity to then go on and add an insult. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/108 "2003-03-13T20:03:45Z")
There’s no motive other than what I have stated. You have overreached from the minute you first started complaining, and you seem bound and determined to continue to do so. In total, I believe it demonstrates a profound immaturity and lack of perspective. You appear not to want to hear that, which is your right. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/109 "2003-03-13T20:10:32Z")
And you refuse to pay attention, apparently. I have conceded that I may have overreacted to the “shirtlifter” comment - which was an aside to begin with. What more do you want? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/110 "2003-03-13T20:22:53Z")
Just chiming in as another chick (certain feminist forum I will not name hated that I called myself a ‘chick’ too) who doesn’t think the word pussy is at all misogynistic, even when used as an insult. I’ve used it, my friends have used it, strangers have used it, and male or female it’s just not that big a fuckin deal. It’s no more misogynistic than calling someone a ‘dick’ or a ‘prick’ (and for that matter, neither is the word cunt) is misandrist. I don’t really think that from what I have seen **Malcandra** is a misogynist. I don’t get the impression that he hates the entire female gender. Of course saying such about other guys and their behavior, which may’ve been assholish but not misogynistic, has gotten me labeled as a sycophant, a tool of the patriarchy, a traitor, an apologist and I’ve been told I’m even lying about being a woman by radical feminists who could not stand to see any man having a woman come to his defense even when he wasn’t a woman hater. The whole deal over these years has left me feeling much more like the average guy would treat me with respect than that the average feminist would. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/111 "2003-03-14T13:53:39Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by **Homebrew** > That’s not my impression. However, I’ll concede that my homophobia meter may have been set too sensitive since I was already annoyed by his apparent misogyny. I’ll withdraw the charge of homophobia and acknowledge that I may have misinterpreted his humour._ “May have” isn’t good enough. You were wrong, I have told you you were wrong, numerous other people have told you you were wrong, and now you’ll graciously “_withdraw the charge of homophobia and acknowledge that I **may** have misinterpreted his humour_”? There’s no “may” about it, you smug, self-righteous, self-important, condescending arsehead. You were looking for something to be righteously offended about; and you found something to take offence at where not only was no offence intended but the large balance of expressed opinion confirms that there was none to be reasonably taken. A retraction and an apology with _no_ cheap, mealy-mouthed equivocation is the least I’m entitled to. > [@](#): > > \*originally posted by **Homebrew** > I’ll also commend his ability obfusicate and derail this thread to avoid directly addressing the major complaint that I had. He has yet to clarify what he meant by “pussification” \* Rubbish. I explained what I meant by the expression ages ago on this thread. > [@](#): > > \*originally posted by **Homebrew** … and repeatedly has shown that he holds women to be less beneficial to society. > \ > That women have done the housework and the childcare has freed up men to innovate, explore, and generally do a lot of hard work, true; but it is jumping the gun to call that “the only reason that the big wins are down to men”. Men might equally well have just used it as an excuse to sit on their big behinds and do nothing at all. You have to give some credit to men’s get-up-and-go for the current wealth of the society you live in. \* Once again, **Homebrew** , you’re lazily assuming that merely quoting my words in some way makes your argument for you, and you’re also ignoring the context. I ceased to be surprised at this some time ago, and I’m guessing I may have some company. You are stating neither what you consider factually incorrect in this post nor how my deliberate posting of such falsehoods constitutes hatred of women. It was **BlueJohn** who claimed that the gender imbalance in breadwinning made women “leeches on society”, and you’re forgetting that I contradicted him quite clearly. I hold it to be quite correct that most of the material wealth in society is earned by men; I have neither stated nor implied that this makes women “less beneficial to society”, and you are out of order in imagining that I have. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by **Homebrew** > \ > I’d like a cite for that since I seem to recall that the Women’s Health Initiative was started in 1992 to make up the gap in research which was skewed towards men. For instance, in 1990, the Government Accounting Office criticized the National Institute of Health for “excluding women from most studies involving diseases, treatments, and drug effects and for devoting only 13% of its research funds to women.” (Fletcher, C., Health and Gender Differences , 1996)_ And in my turn I’d like to know whether that meant the remaining 87% of the budget went to men and men alone, or whether it was spent on sex-neutral health issues, with 13% earmarked for issues affecting women alone. As you may already have gathered, I am short on cites for what I consider common knowledge, especially when the knowledge in question has been gained from TV, radio and the papers. I do know however that we have in this country an expensive national screening programme for breast cancer and cervical cancer, and no equivalent (and next to no public health information programme) for prostate cancer and testicular cancer. Things may be different in Texas. I also know that the cervical cancer programme is extremely expensive in terms of money per life saved - but I’m not enough of a sad act to keep the figures at my fingertips. Even assuming that I am mistaken, I argue that a sincerely-held belief that an unfair amount of money is spent on specifically female healthcare is not good grounds for labelling me a misogynist. > [@](#): > > \*originally posted by **Homebrew** > And just to clarify for Mala’s benefit, I’m male. > \* Yanno, I thought you were in the first place, and somewhere along the line I formed the impression I was mistaken. I’m pleased to be put right. Oh, and btw… the only thing more pathetic than sniffily announcing “That’s it, I’m done here” and flouncing out, is going back on your word after you’ve done it :rolleyes: **catsix** : I believe you’re right about the respect issue. Consider me an “average guy” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/112 "2003-03-14T14:29:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Malacandra \* > \*\*“May have” isn’t good enough. [snip] A retraction and an apology with _no_ cheap, mealy-mouthed equivocation is the least I’m entitled to. You’re right. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/113 "2003-03-14T14:30:02Z")
Well **Malcandra** , if you are ever in my neck of the woods, I’d like to buy you a beer sometime (providing you have proof of legal age 😉 ). ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512/114 "2003-03-14T15:23:58Z")
**Homebrew** : Well spoken, and I accept it and consider the subject closed. **catsix** : Thanks for the offer. Setting foot in the States is as yet an unrealized dream for me, but if I should, proof of age is the last thing I’d need to worry about. It’s been many years since I could even kid myself that I could be mistaken for a minor 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malacandra-deserves-his-own-thread/159512.md?page=5)