# Malazan Book of the Fallen (starting book 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 26, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951 "2013-06-26T11:12:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/1 "2013-06-26T11:12:29Z")
I’ve heard good things about this series, and I’m finally getting around to it. I’m about a quarter of the way through book 1 (Gardens of the Moon), and I’m enjoying it, but I’m still having trouble with a lot of the various factions, history, geography, etc.- can anyone break down for me what I ought to know, without spoiling major plot points? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/2 "2013-06-26T13:21:13Z")
It’s the first book, you don’t really have to know anything. It mostly gets explained as the series goes along. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/3 "2013-06-26T13:23:25Z")
I read the first book, and I still don’t understand anything. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/4 "2013-06-26T13:35:47Z")
Yikes, you don’t ask for much, do you. 😃 I’ll start off by listing off some of the factions in the book and try to describe their relationship with one another, then I’ll move on to specific individuals: **The Malazan Empire** **Allies** : The Moranth **Enemies** : Free Cities, High House Shadow The Malazan Empire was founded relatively recently (within living memory\*) by Emperor Kellanved. The Empire started on the small island of Malaz before conquering the nearby continent of Quon Tali. The people who joined with Kellanved on Malaz became known as the Old Guard within the Empire. The invasion of Quon Tali was possible due to the large number of powerful mages who followed Kellanved, as well as Surly’s Claw, an order of assassins. Next the Empire invaded the continent of Seven Cities. The invasion was successful but the First Sword of the Empire, Dassem Ultor, died at Y’Ghatan. It was during the Seven Cities campaign that the legendary Bridgeburners army company was formed. Either during or shortly after the invasion Surly changed her name to Laseen, assassinated Kellanved and his right-hand man and became Empress. Under Laseen the Empire tried to invade the continent of Korel, which failed. Next the Empire invaded the continent of Genabackis. The Genabackis campaign is the setting for Gardens of the Moon (with the exception of the first couple of scenes). **Free Cities of Genabackis** **Allies** : Tiste Andii **Enemies** : Malazan Empire The main powers on Genabackis were the seven Free Cities of Genabackis. At the opening five of the cities were under Malazan control and a sixth (Pale) was under seige. Darujhistan, which is the setting for most of the novel, is the last untouched free city. **Darujihstan Council** Darujhistan is ruled by a hereditary council of nobles. The Malazan invasion is the main thing that the council is worried about, of course. There are two main factions on the issue: one led by Turban Orr, who wants to issue a Proclamation of Neutrality that basically says that Darujihstan won’t fight the Malazans, and Estrayasian D’Aryle leads the other, who says that the Proclamation is an invitation to be annexed by the Malazans and that they must fight. **T’orrud Cabal** **Allies** : Tiste Andii **Enemies:** Turban Orr, Malazan Empire The T’orrud Cabal is a group of Darujhistan’s leading mages. As a rule they stay out of the politics of the council but the looming Malazan invasion has them taking action. **Tiste Andii of Moon’s Spawn** **Allies** : T’orrud Cabal, Free Cities **Enemies** : Malazan Empire The Tiste Andii are a black-skinned, non-human race who are fighting against the Malazan invasion. The Andii are not native to Genabackis and their motives for fighting the Malazans are unclear. **High House Shadow** **Allies** : None **Enemies** : Malazan Empire A new pair of Gods has recently arisen, Shadowthrone, King of Shadow, and Dancer, patron god of assassins. Their goals are unclear but they are fighting the Malazan empire. **Phoenix Inn Regulars** **Allies** : T’orrud Cabal **Enemies** : Turban Orr The Phoenix Inn regulars are the group that are usually meeting at the Phoenix Inn in Darujhistan. They work for Baruk of the T’orrud Cabal and are independently working against Turban Orr. **The Eel of Darujhistan** **Allies** : Motto is essentially “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” **Enemies** : Malazan Empire, Turban Orr A spymaster within Darujhistan, who is working towards keeping Darujhistan free. I’ll have to get into the individual characters later as I’m running late. - Note that I’m going to be somewhat vague on the exact passage of time because Erikson is notorious for never quite being able to get his timeline straight. Gardens of the Moon is possibly the worst offender, being written significantly earlier than the rest of the series. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/5 "2013-06-26T15:54:35Z")
Thanks Rysto- that’s all very helpful. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/6 "2013-06-26T20:54:50Z")
Didn’t mean for my post to sound so snarky, it’s just that being dropped in the middle of everything without many explanations is basically a feature of the Malazan books, not a bug. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/7 "2013-06-26T22:06:44Z")
I’ve seen this mentioned many times as something people like about this series. I found it irritating. Three or four books in, I decided that there’s actually a very good reason that so many authors spend time giving background and introductions and context and what not - it helps you understand what the hell is going on. YMMV, naturally, but I’ll repeat here what I recently said in another thread: Malazan is for people who get fed up with George RR Martin’s unceasing neverending chirpy optimism. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/8 "2013-06-26T22:21:11Z")
It’s not as though [in media res](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_media_res)is a new technique though. Hell, Homer started both \*the Iliad \*and \*the Odyssey \*in the middle of the action. Back to the OP, _Gardens_ is one of the weakest books in the series, but the next one _Deadhouse Gates_ is one of the best - so stick with it even if you find Gardens a bit meh. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/9 "2013-06-26T22:24:48Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > YMMV, naturally, but I’ll repeat here what I recently said in another thread: Malazan is for people who get fed up with George RR Martin’s unceasing neverending chirpy optimism. There is a kernel of truth in there :D. Though I think he has a better sense of humor than, say, China Mieville. But Erikson does seem to like him some human misery - Esslemont writing in the same universe isn’t as bad ( though he is also not quite as inventive ). ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/10 "2013-06-26T23:22:13Z")
Well it is a book of the fallen; rather than those who lived happily ever after… ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/11 "2013-06-27T00:42:46Z")
So like. Is the author _clever_? Does he write characters who are _clever_? Are there Tyrions and Tywins in this thing? Also, does the thing have moral oomph? I nearly cried in GoT when Dany first freed the unsullied, the scene was really powerful Anything like that in this book? I’m looking for things that make me think and feel deeply. Not a lot of fantasy really does that, but GoT and LotR did. Is Malazan in this area? Or not? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/12 "2013-06-27T01:05:13Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > So like. > > Is the author _clever_? Does he write characters who are _clever_? Are there Tyrions and Tywins in this thing? > > Also, does the thing have moral oomph? I nearly cried in GoT when > > Dany first freed the unsullied, the scene was really powerful > > Anything like that in this book? > > I’m looking for things that make me think and feel deeply. Not a lot of fantasy really does that, but GoT and LotR did. Is Malazan in this area? Or not? Thank you for this post. It is exactly what I want to know. Having not read it, I view Malazan as perhaps complicated, but with little emotional oomph. Is it? ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/13 "2013-06-27T01:25:02Z")
I think it’s fair to say that both Erikson and Esslemont are clever. There’s an enormous cast of characters, some of whom are pretty clever, other’s not nearly as clever as they think they are. As for moral oomph, again there’s lots of this. Erikson verges on too philosophical for my tastes at time, but there’s no denying his intellect. Here’s an example of his style (answering a question about the structure of book 4 as part of the ongoing [Tor.com](http://Tor.com) reread) - I’ve edited out a few very minor spoilers. > [@](#): > > Steven: I’ve mentioned a few times in past interviews the reasons behind my electing a single point of view to open House of Chains, one of them being a reviewer wondering if I knew how to stay with one point of view, which ticked me off. But that aside, I think I had already planned a structural break from the previous three novels. I wanted to explore a more realistic take on the ‘barbarian’ trope found in many fantasy works, and realized fairly quickly that I had plenty to work with, justifying holding to Karsa’s point of view and, more importantly, his limited, truncated world view. Also, I wanted to play with the notion of cultural relativism, which was and remains a pervading argument among anthropologists and others; which is in effect to take the position that what exists in any culture, as practice or traditional behaviour, cannot be judged from outside that culture. I’ve always had a problem with that, since it seeks to impose a notion of amorality to human behaviour, and that amorality is not only intrinsically offensive (to me), it’s also indefensible given the mutilation, oppression and cruelty that can exist in any culture. To stand back and plead scientific detachment is reprehensible. Anyway, I wondered: how far can I push this, … > > There’s obvious risks to such exploration, as it strides blithely into uneasy situations (blinking innocently). I had a fair sense that I couldn’t push it much further, which is why that point of view last for only the first quarter of the novel. At some point, the ‘known’ outer universe (known to the readers, sort of) must impinge on that quaint worldview of the Teblor… > > Curiously, I suppose the reader’s journey is the very opposite, as the opening section pulls one into a very truncated, limited and occasionally appalling world-view, which in effect is a placing of chains upon the reader’s sensibility, binding them to Karsa and his adventures. > > It was an interesting thing to do, and I recall my delight at the constraint Karas’s POV forced upon me as the writer. I still think some of the dialogue among the raiders is the best I’ve done, and as an example of tight, near perfect point of view, it remains to me one that I am most proud of. > > If readers wanted to take a shower after some scenes, step out for a smoke or down a few whiskeys, I get it. Honestly. I never said I was nice. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/14 "2013-06-27T03:16:34Z")
I might be one of the few that finds Erickson’s darkness easier to deal with than Martin’s. I find the Malazan books have more pervasive humor in them. Absurdly dark humor, but humor nonetheless. As for clever characters, if you can stick it out to book 5, you’ll like Tehol Beddict. As an aside, the books I find especially dark are Joe Abercrombie’s. Ain’t nothing good happening to nobody in those books. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/15 "2013-06-27T09:37:05Z")
The trick to the Malazon books is to just keep reading. It will make sense if you just keep going. Sometimes it will take several books but it is all going to come together in the end. Also, there is a second set of books written by Ian Esselmont that details what happened on the night that Kellenved and Dancer were murdered and became Shadow and the Rope. It’s called Knight of Knives. Esselmont, with Erickson’s help, has gone on to write a series of books about what is happening in other parts of the world why the events in Erickson’s stories plays it. It fills in some holes. Erickson is currently writing a prequel trilogy about Anomander Rake. > [@Frylock](#): > > So like. > > Is the author _clever_? Does he write characters who are _clever_? Are there Tyrions and Tywins in this thing? > > Also, does the thing have moral oomph? I nearly cried in GoT when > > Dany first freed the unsullied, the scene was really powerful > > Anything like that in this book? > > I’m looking for things that make me think and feel deeply. Not a lot of fantasy really does that, but GoT and LotR did. Is Malazan in this area? Or not? I find Erickson to be superior to Martin in almost every way but especially in the respectful way he handles his characters (and the fans who love his characters). There will be suffering - but it’s not just suffering to to manipulate his readers’ emotions. Erickson’s believes in the greatness of the human spirit even when things get ugly. Oh - one other thing about Erikson. You can trust him to finish his novels and wrap up his series in a timely fashion. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/16 "2013-06-27T12:56:59Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > So like. > > Is the author _clever_? Does he write characters who are _clever_? Are there Tyrions and Tywins in this thing? > > Also, does the thing have moral oomph? I nearly cried in GoT when > > Dany first freed the unsullied, the scene was really powerful > > Anything like that in this book? > > I’m looking for things that make me think and feel deeply. Not a lot of fantasy really does that, but GoT and LotR did. Is Malazan in this area? Or not? Ericksson does moving and powerful scenes much better than Martin. If freeing the unsullied had that effect you are going to spend entire books sobbing uncontrollably. Deadhouse Gates specially, Gardens of the Moon not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/17 "2013-07-03T21:58:41Z")
Hey, I didn’t start the thread but did want to register that I have in fact begun book one. I’m about 10 percent through and am really enjoying it! I have to admit I “cheated” a bit because in reading up on the series to decide if I should try it, I managed to learn a lot about the world it’s set in, so I don’t feel the lost-in-the-ocean kind of feeling a lot of people do when reading it for the first time. I don’t know if this means I’m missing out on an essential experience. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/18 "2013-07-03T23:05:20Z")
Good for you. Personally I don’t feel you’re missing out on much by reading a bit of background first. And the series is definitely worth reading IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/19 "2013-07-03T23:43:22Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Hey, I didn’t start the thread but did want to register that I have in fact begun book one. I’m about 10 percent through and am really enjoying it! > > I have to admit I “cheated” a bit because in reading up on the series to decide if I should try it, I managed to learn a lot about the world it’s set in, so I don’t feel the lost-in-the-ocean kind of feeling a lot of people do when reading it for the first time. I don’t know if this means I’m missing out on an essential experience. Well if it made you pick up the books it’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Anonymous\_Coward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@Anonymous\_Coward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonymous_Coward)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951/20 "2013-07-04T00:34:27Z")
I’m halfway through the last book and I can’t wait until it’s done so I can read the wikis, get the characters and their motives straight, and read it all again. Right now on some chapters I’m just lost but I can’t stop now. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-starting-book-1/661951.md?page=2)