# Malcolm X on white liberals **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 3, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997 "2020-06-03T18:39:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/41 "2020-06-05T16:44:00Z")
Someone used a rhetorical flourish to make his point? 55 years ago? OK I’ll put it on the docket. Wait, he was black???..Uh oh. That is front burner now. Rhetoric while black? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/42 "2020-06-05T17:25:55Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > But it isn’t society treating them like crap This statement represents a level of denialism that I just can’t wrap my head around. Sure, we can disagree about the comparative extent to which persistent systemic anti-black racism and other factors are contributing to problems faced by black people. But to just flatly assert that society is not in fact “treating them like crap”, i.e., that systemic anti-black racism is simply no longer a factor in this situation? What alternate timeline are you living in where that’s even remotely true? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/43 "2020-06-05T17:26:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > These statistics have been misused for years and years to denigrate black people. > > [It’s a canard.](https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/06/understanding-out-of-wedlock-births-in-black-america/277084/) > > On a per capita basis, about half as many unmarried black women now give birth compared to 50 years ago. And it’s been going down steadily for many years, aside from a few blips. To repeat, out-of-wedlock births among black women has been going down for decades. In fact, it’s at the lowest point in the history of the statistic (at least at the time of this article, 2013). > > If “unwed black mothers” is the problem, then black people have been steadily correcting it for decades. And yet society still treats them like crap. Which makes me suspect that it’s not unwed black mothers that are the problem, but how black people are treated by society. Over the period that out of wedlock births have been going down, hasn’t society’s treatment of black people been getting better? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/44 "2020-06-05T17:43:09Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > Understanding the voting interests of black folks in America is incredibly easy: > > - Group R consists of ALL of the racists in America with some other less prominent folks thrown in. Not so coincidentally, group R has no problem allowing their racist contingent to help set the policies their group will pursue. > - Group D at least attempts to give lip service to the various causes that are important to black folks even if they put little energy and effort into effecting actual change. > > The question shouldn’t be why do 90+% of black folks vote democrat, it should be what the hell is wrong with the other 10%?!? > > That being said, I actually agree with Urbanredneck in that white liberals are often extremely hypocritical when you compare what they claim to believe vs the way they actually live. But I say it’s better to team up with the hypocrites than to team up with the racists. What is the evidence that all racists are Republican? The last time the GSS asked about inter racial marriage, 2002, more Democrats than Republicans were against it. 11.9% to 11.5%. In 2008 the GSS had white Republicans more willing to vote for a black candidate for president 94.4% to 93%. In the 2008 American National Election Study 34% of Democrat respondents said blacks were lazy, and 21% said they were unintelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/45 "2020-06-05T17:48:26Z")
There are some awfully broad brushes being used in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/46 "2020-06-05T18:01:21Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > If that is true, then great! But it isn’t society treating them like crap iiandyiii, it’s life and the life choices which are unfailing equal. When you make bad choices, whether tha is wife, mother of child, job, or other, Life has a way of making it known that it was a bad choice. When do you believe American society stopped “treating them like crap”? What was the cutoff, in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/47 "2020-06-05T18:22:21Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Malcolm X had to promote a divisive discourse as it supported his own purpose and agenda. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > There are some awfully broad brushes being used in this thread. Maybe ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/48 "2020-06-05T18:32:03Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > What is the evidence that all racists are Republican? That was hyperbole, but there’s plenty of evidence that more Republicans are racist than Democrats – [in 2018](https://www.newsweek.com/20-percent-america-thinks-interracial-marriage-morally-wrong-poll-finds-845608), 28 percent of Republicans vs 12 percent of Democrats said that interracial marriage was morally wrong. So more than twice as many Republicans think interracial marriage is wrong compared to Democrats. Further: “half of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic said they felt the increasing number of interracial marriages was good for society. Just 28 percent of Republicans and right-leaning independents said the same.” Also: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/03/31/the-gap-between-republicans-and-democrats-views-of-african-americans-just-hit-a-new-high/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/03/31/the-gap-between-republicans-and-democrats-views-of-african-americans-just-hit-a-new-high/) This is behind a paywall, but here are some snippets: "The GSS asks whether African Americans are worse off economically “because most just don’t have the motivation or will power to pull themselves up out of poverty?” A majority — 55 percent — of white Republicans agreed with this statement, compared to 26 percent of white Democrats. That’s the biggest gap since the question was first asked in 1977 — though the gap was similar (60-32) in 2010." “42 percent of white Republicans rated African Americans as being lazier than whites, versus 24 percent of white Democrats. That 18-point gap is the second-biggest on record, behind 2010 (19 points).” “As with the previous question, the survey didn’t ask people to compare blacks and whites directly, but rather to rate each race separately. In this case, 26 percent of white Republicans rated African Americans as less intelligent, compared to 18 percent of white Democrats. That eight-point gap is slightly bigger than in 2010 (seven points) and 2004 (six points).” Not only is there plenty of evidence that more Republicans are racist than Democrats, there’s actually evidence that Republicans are more racist now than in the recent past. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/49 "2020-06-05T18:36:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m not sure I get this. > > I mean, I get it if you are a young, headstrong, pissed-off guy but if you are a person trying to make life better for your group of people then this makes no sense. > > I never understood Malcolm-X’s antisemitism. White Jews had been involved in black civil rights since the early 20th century. And he hates them? > > I get that the black experience is wholly different from the Jews (or most anyone else). I get that Jews and blacks and whoever would never see eye-to-eye on all issues. Hell, if you’ve ever been in a serious relationship you know it is impossible for two people who love each other to always be on the same page with everything. > > But that does not mean you cannot make common cause. Work together on the things you do agree about. Get laws passed fixing inequality. Even-out the disparity between schools. Fix laws that predominantly put black men in prison and perpetuates slavery and so on. These are fundamental building blocks both sides would agree to. > > There are so, so many places black people and white liberals agree upon and I think they are among the most important things this country needs to get settled. > > Once that is done then break-up and bitch about the other stuff but always remember to keep those things at the base in place. > > Together we stand, divided we fall kind of thing. > > Malcolm-X wasn’t helping anyone and likely causing more harm than good despite his intentions. I’m of the opinion that he was a conservative person by nature. Being black in the 60s meant he couldn’t behave the way a typical conservative member of the majority gets to behave. Had he been born white and a few decades later, he would probably have turned out like Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/50 "2020-06-05T18:39:35Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Over the period that out of wedlock births have been going down, hasn’t society’s treatment of black people been getting better? Have you seen the news recently? ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/51 "2020-06-05T18:57:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m not sure I get this. > > I mean, I get it if you are a young, headstrong, pissed-off guy but if you are a person trying to make life better for your group of people then this makes no sense. > > I never understood Malcolm-X’s antisemitism. White Jews had been involved in black civil rights since the early 20th century. And he hates them? > > I get that the black experience is wholly different from the Jews (or most anyone else). I get that Jews and blacks and whoever would never see eye-to-eye on all issues. Hell, if you’ve ever been in a serious relationship you know it is impossible for two people who love each other to always be on the same page with everything. > > But that does not mean you cannot make common cause. Work together on the things you do agree about. Get laws passed fixing inequality. Even-out the disparity between schools. Fix laws that predominantly put black men in prison and perpetuates slavery and so on. These are fundamental building blocks both sides would agree to. > > There are so, so many places black people and white liberals agree upon and I think they are among the most important things this country needs to get settled. > > Once that is done then break-up and bitch about the other stuff but always remember to keep those things at the base in place. > > Together we stand, divided we fall kind of thing. > > Malcolm-X wasn’t helping anyone and likely causing more harm than good despite his intentions. I’m of the opinion that he was a conservative person by nature. Being black in the 60s meant he couldn’t behave the way a typical conservative member of the majority gets to behave. Had he been born white and a few decades later, he would probably have turned out like Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/52 "2020-06-05T19:11:22Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > What is the evidence that all racists are Republican? The last time the GSS asked about inter racial marriage, 2002, more Democrats than Republicans were against it. 11.9% to 11.5%. In 2008 the GSS had white Republicans more willing to vote for a black candidate for president 94.4% to 93%. > In the 2008 American National Election Study 34% of Democrat respondents said blacks were lazy, and 21% said they were unintelligent. Are you trying to assert that republicans aren’t the party of white racists or are you just taking exception to me using the word “all” in a weak ass attempt to score a point? If it’s the first then I would LOVE for you to expound on that. If it’s the later then you’re gonna have to miss me with that weak shit. Yes, I am painting with a wide brush and I don’t care how you feel about that. Others might be willing to entertain the pedantry and debate shit that’s obvious but I have lost all patience with people who continually get stuck on unimportant details that are irrelevant to the larger point. And just so I am clear, everything in your response is irrelevant to the larger point. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/53 "2020-06-05T20:53:55Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Over the period that out of wedlock births have been going down, hasn’t society’s treatment of black people been getting better? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Have you seen the news recently? We’ve given them second-class citizenship. What more do they want? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/54 "2020-06-06T01:21:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In his defense, that’s probably the strongest evidence he could find for a lack of racism among conservatives: most conservatives aren’t so racist that they’ll literally refuse to eat food touched by a black person. > > I mean, I guess he could claim that 11 am on a Sunday morning is no longer the most segregated hour in American life, because now at least 20% of churches [aren’t overwhelmingly monoracial](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/08/many-u-s-congregations-are-still-racially-segregated-but-things-are-changing-2/), so I guess progress? At least they’re better than those liberal atheists because something something. My point is that I find conservatives are less racist than liberals. I agree and hate that our churches are so divided. In defense, I find the more liberal the church, the whiter it is. Whereas I’ve seen conservative churches very mixed white, black, hispanic (translators available), asians, and even a few bikers. suits, and hipsters in green hair. You dont see that in liberal churches. Did you even look at any of my videos? Thing is blacks are taught to act and behave certain ways by their white liberal overlords but many blacks still think for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/55 "2020-06-06T01:30:25Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > My point is that I find conservatives are less racist than liberals. The data (like that presented in post 48) shows that you’re wrong about this. So does history - liberals fought to free the slaves; liberals fought segregation; liberals fought for civil rights. Conservatives fought to conserve their traditions - traditions like slavery, segregation, and discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/56 "2020-06-06T01:36:21Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > Once again, just stop. Just because you can cherry pick random examples of black folks not being offended by offensive stuff does NOT denote any type of special relationship. Black people make questionable choices everyday, just like white people. To hold up a few examples as a means to demonstrate any type of solidarity only goes to show how difficult it is to convince people like you that problems actually exist. Sure problems exist. Ths is an example of how white liberals will solve it. its an article called “[75 Things White People can do for Racial Justice](https://medium.com/equality-includes-you/what-white-people-can-do-for-racial-justice-f2d18b0e0234)”. THIS is the liberal mindset. Read a book, watch a video, and give some money. But DONT, I repeat DONT send your own kids to their schools. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/57 "2020-06-06T01:45:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The data (like that presented in post 48) shows that you’re wrong about this. So does history - liberals fought to free the slaves; liberals fought segregation; liberals fought for civil rights. Conservatives fought to conserve their traditions - traditions like slavery, segregation, and discrimination. No, John Brown, who died trying to lead a slave rebellion, was NOT liberal about anything. Lincoln and the republicans ended slavery. Sure liberals were against segregation. It meant blacks running their own schools and thinking for themselves. But their option was to tell black parents their kids could not learn unless they were sitting next to a white kid. Notice how our schools are more segregated than ever before and [many blacks TODAY actually prefer their own all-black schools.](https://www.kcpublicschools.org/acpreplower) ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/58 "2020-06-06T01:49:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The data (like that presented in post 48) shows that you’re wrong about this. So does history - liberals fought to free the slaves; liberals fought segregation; liberals fought for civil rights. Conservatives fought to conserve their traditions - traditions like slavery, segregation, and discrimination. If we are going back in history and using broad brush strokes, ‘liberals’ kept the US military segregated during both World Wars and interned thousands of Japanese Americans. Wasnt that Lincoln guy a Rep too? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/59 "2020-06-06T02:18:09Z")
Dup ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/60 "2020-06-06T02:16:50Z")
Worst thing about those white liberal churches? They’re full of atheists. CMC fnord! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997.md?page=4)