# Malcolm X on white liberals **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 3, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997 "2020-06-03T18:39:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/161 "2020-07-01T15:59:52Z")
Then why would he hold her up as a part of the black community? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/162 "2020-07-01T15:59:54Z")
Hip Hop is as misogynistic and narcissistic as ever. There is also a vein of antisemitism running through it (Ice Cube for example). Its socializing young people in a bad way. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/163 "2020-07-01T16:00:37Z")
Africans are part of the larger black community as well as Caribbean Islanders. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/164 "2020-07-01T16:00:48Z")
Rap has many forms, the kind that says fuck the police, fuck dem hoes and bitches, is the kind of rap I am talking about. The label matters not one whit. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/165 "2020-07-01T16:05:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > 16 per thousand is 1.6% (i.e. ~2%). > > This math fact is brought to you by 3rd grade arithmetic! It’s 16/44 per thousand white/black _women_, NOT per thousand _births_. A _vast majority_ of women do not have babies at all in any given year. Considering there were 3.79 _million_ babies born in the U.S. in 2018, and roughly the same amount year after year, it’s crazy to me to say these are insignificant numbers. But we’re getting super off topic anyway, so I’ll leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/166 "2020-07-01T16:13:32Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Rap has many forms, the kind that says fuck the police, fuck dem hoes and bitches, is the kind of rap I am talking about. The label matters not one whit. Can you give examples of popular Fuck the Police stuff recently? Rap can be misogynist, no doubt, but that’s not exactly something that is just siloed to rap music - and, of course, has changed with a lot more female voices in rap in the last half decade (Cardi B and Lizzo for example). ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/167 "2020-07-01T16:18:01Z")
Ashtura, it’s not off topic and iiandyiii knew exactly what those numbers were, he just chooses to be deaf and blind when it doesn’t fit his narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/168 "2020-07-01T16:19:55Z")
You think Cardi B and Lizzo are any more or less degrading to other women and in this case men? It’s getting rather old trying to fight this uphill battle that you guys keep piling on. Do the words “Fuck the police” actually need to be said, or can they talk about how they do all sorts of illegal shit and don’t care? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/169 "2020-07-01T16:21:18Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I am assuming that your wife made a good choice, or some combination of good and some bad choices but choosing to have a child with you was in her eyes and I assume yours, a good choice. Let’s start with this minutae. But that’s not a choice by “the black community” – that’s a choice by an individual. I still don’t understand, and you’re still not explaining it – what do you mean by choices made by “the black community”? How is this community of strangers making choices? Are individuals who make good choices not part of “the black community”? Is “the black community” only the folks who make bad choices? You’re not making sense to me, and you’re still not explaining in detail, what you mean by “community” and how they make choices. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/170 "2020-07-01T16:23:13Z")
Do you actually listen to these artists? The ‘uphill battle’ is because you won’t show your work, or you make ridiculous generalized statements against “The Blacks” without any supporting evidence at all - just prejudice and logical leaps. Why does violent lyrics from the 90s have such an impact but violent video games from the same time do not? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/171 "2020-07-01T16:23:33Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > It’s 16/44 per thousand white/black _women_, NOT per thousand _births_. A _vast majority_ of women do not have babies at all in any given year. Considering there were 3.79 _million_ babies born in the U.S. in 2018, and roughly the same amount year after year, it’s crazy to me to say these are insignificant numbers. But we’re getting super off topic anyway, so I’ll leave it at that. Yes – 16/44 per thousand women actually gave birth out of wedlock. Around 2% and around 4%. In raw numbers it adds up to a lot, but in percentages, it’s not actually that different. Especially when you realize that fewer and fewer unmarried black women have been giving birth, decade after decade (to the point that it’s actually the fewest per capita in the statistical record). So if “unmarried black women giving birth” is supposed to be some huge part of the problem, it only affects a very small percentage of black women every year. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/172 "2020-07-01T16:34:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes – 16/44 per thousand women actually gave birth out of wedlock. Around 2% and around 4%. In raw numbers it adds up to a lot, but in percentages, it’s not actually that different. Especially when you realize that fewer and fewer unmarried black women have been giving birth, decade after decade (to the point that it’s actually the fewest per capita in the statistical record). So if “unmarried black women giving birth” is supposed to be some huge part of the problem, it only affects a very small percentage of black women every year. Of black _women_, sure. But not of _black women having babies_. I don’t think very many people are saying the main problem lies with black women, it’s the number of black babies that don’t have a father figure. They’re the ones that are really getting disadvantaged. And in raw numbers, compared to white women, it’s out of whack. And not by a little bit. Nearly _3 times_ as much per capita. I argue that the raw numbers (that actually represent individual people), are more important than percentages. Small percentages can equal a LOT of people. Now, it’s awesome that the gap is closing. Someday that might result in parity. But that doesn’t change the fact that this has been going on for decades and influences what’s going on today. Why minimizing it. If you can find a confounding factor, you can at least have a chance of addressing the confounding factor. It’s not a matter of black people being good or bad. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/173 "2020-07-01T16:37:47Z")
ISiddiqui, I would assume because 1 is imaginary and 1 is the real world (and the fact that people idolize rappers isn’t a new thing) Do i need to back up the out of wedlock births as well? There is no supporting evidence that prejudice and racism is a huge issue either, yet here we are discussing how bad it really is (even when you don’t see it). It’s everywhere! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/174 "2020-07-01T16:38:42Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > There is no supporting evidence that prejudice and racism is a huge issue either, yet here we are discussing how bad it really is (even when you don’t see it). It’s everywhere! You’ve ignored the many, many pieces of evidence brought in this thread (and many, many more threads as well). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/175 "2020-07-01T16:39:55Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Of black _women_, sure. But not of _black women having babies_. I don’t think very many people are saying the main problem lies with black women, it’s the number of black babies that don’t have a father figure. They’re the ones that are really getting disadvantaged. And in raw numbers, compared to white women, it’s out of whack. And not by a little bit. Nearly _3 times_ as much per capita. I argue that the raw numbers (that actually represent individual people), are more important than percentages. Small percentages can equal a LOT of people. > > Now, it’s awesome that the gap is closing. Someday that might result in parity. But that doesn’t change the fact that this has been going on for decades and influences what’s going on today. Why minimizing it. If you can find a confounding factor, you can at least have a chance of addressing the confounding factor. It’s not a matter of black people being good or bad. I’ve suggested at least one confounding factor – black men being mistreated by law enforcement and disproportionately imprisoned, generally for disparately longer sentences for the same crimes as compared to white men. If there are lots of black fathers unjustly in prison, then there are lots of black children unjustly without their fathers due to the racism in broader society. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/176 "2020-07-01T16:39:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’ve ignored the many, many pieces of evidence brought in this thread (and many, many more threads as well). Not to the mention potential explanations on why there are disparities in poverty or single parents (Mass incarceration has been mentioned how many times now?). They seem to get completely ignored and the hole gets dug deeper on the pre-judged reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/177 "2020-07-01T16:43:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ve suggested at least one confounding factor – black men being mistreated by law enforcement and disproportionately imprisoned, generally for disparately longer sentences for the same crimes as compared to white men. If there are lots of black fathers unjustly in prison, then there are lots of black children unjustly without their fathers due to the racism in broader society. These stats are based on point of birth. How many black men are being thrown in prison within 9 months of conceiving a child? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/178 "2020-07-01T16:57:06Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > These stats are based on point of birth. How many black men are being thrown in prison within 9 months of conceiving a child? Significantly more than white men, certainly. But further, the problem, if there is one, isn’t about paperwork on the birth certificate – it’s about the presence of fathers. If the fathers are locked up unjustly, whether within 9 months or 15 years of conception, then that child is lacking their father due to systemic racism. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/179 "2020-07-01T16:58:49Z")
The entire justice system! Systemic racism! Dog whistle some more And excuse excuse excuse. What did they get thrown in jail for? Doing illegal shit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997/180 "2020-07-01T17:03:27Z")
I’ve changed my mind – it’s not just that **Kearsen1** thinks racism is over, and we don’t – it’s that he sees black people as “they” who “get thrown in jail” for “illegal shit” and make “bad choices”. Considering that, dialogue and discussion probably isn’t going to be terribly productive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malcolm-x-on-white-liberals/854997.md?page=10)