# "Male" and "Female" as synonyms for "Man" and "Woman"? non-zombie version **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718 "2007-11-16T17:30:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malachi\_Throne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Malachi\_Throne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malachi_Throne)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/1 "2007-11-16T17:30:54Z")
To continue the discussion without the zombie aspect. (Refer to this link and be sure not to expect comments from the early-date posters: ["Male" and "Female" as synonyms for "Man" and "Woman"? - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=81214) ) Shortened OP: > [@](#): > > … > I’ve noticed increasingly on news interviews and the like that people will use the words “male” and “female” as synonymous with “man” and “woman”–e.g., “As a female, I was offended by that” or “We must find a way to improve the plight of urban African-American males.” > … > Anyone else have a problem with this? Is it imprecise speech? Is it just another sign of the language moving on? Am I missing something? Or am I just a victim of some overzealous English teachers? I wouldn’t go so far as to say I’m offended by it, I’ve just never quite understood that usage. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/2 "2007-11-16T18:07:16Z")
One difference is that “females” and “males” include children as well as adults – this may be important in some contexts, e.g., “Males have a shorter life expectancy at birth than females.” That sentence would look odd with “men” and “women”. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/3 "2007-11-16T19:15:52Z")
My pet peeve ‘Is America Ready for a Woman President?’ The idiocy of the question aside, how men ‘Men Presidents’ have there been, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/4 "2007-11-16T19:18:29Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] how men ‘Men Presidents’ have there been, anyway? [/QUOTE] Is this a trick question? It’s 42 or 43, depending on whether you count one man once or twice. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/5 "2007-11-16T19:20:45Z")
“Woman” is not now, or has it ever been, an adjective. A “Woman President” would be someone (male or female) who presides over a woman. The rule is “Use adjectives for descriptions and only if they are germaine to the discussion or are needed for clarity.” “Executive Jane Smith” is fine. “Female Executive Chris Rock” is okay. Hilary Clinton might be our first Female President. I think we are ready for her. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/6 "2007-11-16T19:35:06Z")
As I said in the other thread - while there are times “male” and “female” are the best term, I think the interchangability of man/male and woman/female has probably been encouraged by stupid reporters trying to sound like cops. I don’t know why cops talk like this either, but there you go. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/7 "2007-11-16T19:38:34Z")
I don’t know if it makes a difference, but all of the military folks I know say “male” and “female” as opposed to “man” and “woman”. You know, like, “There were so many females at the beach blah blah”. I’ve caught myself utilizing “male” and “female”, but I entirely blame my friends. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/8 "2007-11-16T19:41:50Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] I’ve caught myself utilizing [/QUOTE] Do you have any idea what you’re doing to my blood pressure? :mad: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/9 "2007-11-16T19:59:35Z")
[QUOTE=Post.Rinse.Repeat.] This is just the latest battle of the war between Old English and Old French that has been going on since the Norman invasion. Snobs think French is more refined. They prefer pork to pig meat, etc. and probably porc when used on menus. [/QUOTE] Romance language more refined than Germanic? Fornicate _that_ excrement! _Now_ I’m urinated off. 😉😛 ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/10 "2007-11-16T20:05:33Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] I don’t know if it makes a difference, but all of the military folks I know say “male” and “female” as opposed to “man” and “woman”. You know, like, “There were so many females at the beach blah blah”. I’ve caught myself utilizing “male” and “female”, but I entirely blame my friends. [/QUOTE] Well, I guess it might be a way to keep things clinical or asexual or whatever, so I can see military personnel using it on the job, but in everyday conversation with their civilian friends??? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/11 "2007-11-16T20:18:10Z")
[QUOTE=WOOKINPANUB] Well, I guess it might be a way to keep things clinical or asexual or whatever, so I can see military personnel using it on the job, but in everyday conversation with their civilian friends??? [/QUOTE] _shrug_ I just don’t think they even realize what they are doing- they regularly use military acronyms and stuff as well. I’m around them all enough to have an idea what they are talking about most of the time, but some of our other friends end up incredibly confused. ---
**Author:** ![SparrowHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@SparrowHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SparrowHawk)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/12 "2007-11-16T20:38:39Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] “Woman” is not now, or has it ever been, an adjective. [/QUOTE] But not all modifiers are adjectives. English uses nouns as modifiers. And “woman” as a modifier [goes back to 1300](http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005076.html). According to [William Safire](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/18/magazine/18wwlnsafire.t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) an apposite noun like this is “stronger than an adjective” because while “both words can be used as modifiers of nouns” an adjective “adds color to a noun, while apposite nouns are part of the basis of meaning of a noun phrase.” I kind of like “woman” myself. A female can be of any species (that has them); a woman is a human being. (Also, you should have said “nor” instead of “or.” I now quiver in anticipation of Gaudere’s thunderbolt.) ---
**Author:** ![Malachi\_Throne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Malachi\_Throne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malachi_Throne)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-and-female-as-synonyms-for-man-and-woman-non-zombie-version/426718/13 "2007-11-17T18:11:52Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] I don’t know if it makes a difference, but all of the military folks I know say “male” and “female” as opposed to “man” and “woman”. You know, like, “There were so many females at the beach blah blah”. [/QUOTE] It’s the same way with police. They get to speaking like their training textbooks. Instead of thief, they have to say accused or suspect so as not to give ammo to the defense team later. My police friends talk like they are addressing a courtroom on their best behavior, even when it’s a private dinner party.