I thought some also had slight variances in things like the ratio of the of the top tube to the seat tube and the width of the handle bars to accommodate things like the different rise in women’s hips/pelvis and shoulder width.
I know a few women who swear by Terry saddles.
Yes, you can get different geometries, but that doesn’t mean a man might not fit the same geometry. They make different geometry frames because everyone is different, I still wouldn’t narrow it to gender specific.
Georgina Terry does.
Pardon my cynicism, but I can’t see how this 2009 Fast Woman bike differs significantly in shape from my old (guys) 10-speed from 25 years ago.
Perhaps you can show me where I said that the shape was significantly different.
Here is an incomplete list of characteristics of bikes designed specifically for women.
*Key Differences in Ladies Bicycles
* Smaller frame, specifically a shorter top tube (the diagonal bar on a mountain bike, straight bar on a road bike) and often a shorter head tube.
* Shorter stem, narrowing the distance from the saddle to the handlebars.
* Lighter materials.
* Shorter seat tube.
* Shorter cranks.
* Narrower handlebars and often grips.
* Short-reach brake levers for smaller hands.
* Women’s specific saddles.*
Terry was among the first, if not the first, to take these and other considerations into account.
What a load of huey. There are only three places that a person touches a bicycle: saddle, pedals and handlebars. Each of those places can be adjusted in space using different size and shapes of frame but moreso by fitting different stems, changing seat heights, crank lengths etc. And all of this can be done on any standard frame.
You could walk into any decent bikeshop and get them to fit a woman’s saddle, and adjust or change out a few components as necessary to get the bars etc in the right place, and make exact replicas of her bikes. If any changes were necessary at all.
She’s just found a marketing niche appealing to women who are daunted by bikeshops.
Now I know you are joking. Some of the other differences are silly: smaller frames have always been available. There are small guys, you know.
But lighter materials? Now I know we are not in Kansas anymore. We are in lala marketing land.
Lighter materials have been the holy grail in bikes forever. Hell, you could have a men’s only bikeshop ( no one allowed in without showing testicles) and lighter materials would still be what ever second guy entering would pay extra for.
Explain to me how one shortens a top tube. Or miniaturizes a brake lever. Or rebrazes the break mounts.
No, you can’t. Perhaps you could purchase a frameset and order the necessary components, but most bike shops will not swap out entire component gruoups, minus the drive train, which is what you are suggesting. That would mean swapping new, in the box items for what is essentially used merchandise.
How can you possibly know that these women are daunted by bike shops? Where do you think she sells them? At street fairs?
Please don’t misattribute my quotes. I never said that.
I can’t compare my experience to yours, given that I lack the parts, but an iron bar to the girly bits is extremely painful. (I was on a a double-swingset that broke, not a bike, but I think it was the same sort of thing).
Small brake levers maybe. However even they come longer and shorter in different brands. Frames come in all shapes and sizes, with long and short top tubes and head tubes. There’s nothing unique to this shop about this. As I said, to listen to you, you’d think small guys don’t exist.
Firstly you are exaggerating, and secondly, maybe you just go to seriously (seriously) crap bikeshops. I haven’t bought a bike yet where they haven’t offered to change the saddle and stem to achieve fit. The stem is where most of the positioning adjustment is for reach. Seat height is always adjustable. Crank length adjustment is not usually offered, but suggesting that this shop offers anything special in this respect seems nonsense to me: there is massive overlap in leg size between men and women, so if you need to go to a special shop to find cranks that fit most women, you’d need to go to the same shop for a significant proportion of men.
I read a lot of bike magazines which have articles written by women talking about how many other women (and often the author themselves) are daunted by bike shops because their view (rightly or wrongly) is that regular bikes shops are male dominated and too techy and hard core, and the male staff look down on the uninitiated. She has found a marketing niche in being a shop that specialises in having a different image. Just calling herself a woman’s bikeshop isn’t enough probably, so she exaggerates tiny differences in the build of her bikes and pretends her bikes are significantly different when they are not.
Post #25 wasn’t yours? It has your name at the top:dubious:
I’m a biker with a long torso, and short legs. Most bikes don’t fit me, and there’s not a lot you can do about it. Until I found my Lemond which fits me perfectly because it has a slightly longer top tube than changes the geometry of the frame. Unless someone chooses to make a frame like that (or I get a custom frame) I’m out of luck.
My impression has been that women, in general, don’t fit bikes with the same geometry as a man’s bike. The differences are subtle but they exist. In order to make bikes that fit smaller women for example, Terry went to a smaller front wheel, and adjusted the frame accordingly. A smaller man’s frame wouldn’t fit the same. If women body proportions are different than men’s (not sure, is it true?) than scaling men’s bikes won’t work.
I’m more familiar with sking, where women’s ski boots used to simply be smaller men’s boots. But women’s feet are different dimensions than men’s and you can’t just scale men’s boots down and have them fit as well.
As somebody who rides mens bikes in a skirt all the time, honestly I think the “it’s so you can ride a bike in a skirt” thing is a bit of a red herring.
The problem is not riding the bike. The problem is getting on the thing in the first place. The maneuver where you swing your leg over either behind or in front of the seat is kind of undignified in a skirt, and shows rather a lot of leg. As a 21st century chick, honestly I don’t care, but I suspect your average turn-of-the-20th lady bike rider would probably prefer to be able to mount and dismount in a more ladylike manner.
And, as alluded to by Fridgemagnet, the leg-swing is quite an athletic movement in any case, which wouldn’t necessarily appeal to the bike-as-transportation set, who are just trying to get from A to B without the benefit of a car, rather than explicitly setting out to get fit or get exercise.
Once you’re actually on the bike, the central bar is very useful - it holds the skirt out of the way of the chain. I’ve never actually seen a “skirt guard” on a ladies bike (I’ve never gone looking, mind you) but I question how well such a thing would actually work in practice. I think you’d still need bicycle clips to keep your dress out of the way.
As most people have pointed out already, its so dress/skirt riding females could get onto the bike with ease.
When my mrs and I were purchasing bikes she was pressing me to purchase the “female” version of the same bike. I’ve never liked the shape of the “female” bikes and pressed her to get the “male” version.
Her argument was that she had problems getting on a male bike without falling over - I asked her to demonstrate, and noticed that she lifted her leg between the handle and the seat, meaning she needed to lift her leg higher over the bar… this caused her to loose balance.
I had always mounted a bike by lifting my leg from behind the seat, and never had to compete with the bar… and no loss of balance.
I asked her why she mounted the bike that way, and her answer was “because I’ve always done it that way”.
I instructed her to mount the “male” bike the way I did… and on her first attempt, she succeeded without loosing balance.
From that time she realised she didn’t require the “female” frame.
The reason why “female” versions still exist, is because females still buy these type of frames. In my wifes case, because she’s never been taught to mount a bike in any other way, but “lady-like” way.
Unless these difference can be stated, we are talking about magic (or marketing bullshit, more like) not science.
But I would be interested to know how these differences cannot be accommodated. Bike fit is essentially a triangle: bottom bracket, handlebars, seat. The bottom bracket can’t move but the other points in the triangle can be moved relative to the bottom bracket: the seat goes forward and back and up and down, and the handlebars likewise by changing the stem height and length.
The only other thing is crank length, but that depends on leg length and as you demonstrate (I’m the same) some guys have short legs just like some women. So ordinary bike shops are as able to cope with that for men as for women.
I can’t see how we’ll ever get a factual answer to that question.
While a shot to the crotch is painful for a woman (as I know from experience) by and large no, it is not AS painful as it is for a man. Labia are not as sensitive as scrotums and testicles. A direct hit on the clitoris might rival male crotch pain but it’s a very small target and more protected than penis and testicles.
A shot to female crotch hurts, but it does not by and large cause limp limbs, vomiting, or unconsciousness, all conditions that a shot to the male crotch can produce.
^ This. After I broke my second bike frame my parents started buying me boy’s bikes, which seemed to survive my riding style much better. But then I always a tomboy.
I know a couple older men in my area who only ride women’s bikes. Both stated they started doing that after unfortunate injuries involving crossbars and genitals. Decided they were willing to accept less macho if it meant less pain.
Fair enough; somehow I’d managed to read significant frame shape changes into what you wrote, whereas subtle proportion changes would fit (without changing the overall shape enough that I might notice it). Sorry about that Contrapuntal. And I can see how a bike designed for womens’ more triangular pelvic jointing could be different to mens’ more straight up & down shape.
Most of these changes do look like scaling however.
You can say that again. :rolleyes: