Male and female bike differences

[amarinth]

@Princhester

The variation in angle in non gender specific bikes covers the range that includes what you are being sold as “women’s frames”.

For some manufacturers, it does. For others, no, really doesn’t. Not even close. The WSD bikes are fitting people that were not getting decent fitting standard bikes.

I actually don’t ride a WSD, couldn’t find one that I liked and fit the last time I went shopping for a bike. But no, they were not exactly the same as the mens bikes with different paint jobs.

[Princhester]

@amarinth

For some manufacturers, it does. For others, no, really doesn’t. Not even close.

So if you go to a manufacturer with a crap range of frames you may not be able to find something that will fit. This is as true for women as for men, for numerous reasons already given. Further, you are ignoring the point that seat tube length for a given frame size is variable over a tiny range, while seats can go forward and back by a larger range and stems likewise.

Bill of goods.

[Anachronism]

Wow, this thread is a mess :eek:

At least we manged to sum up that serious bikes for both genders have the traditional top tube of a ‘mans’ frame. I will add that the sloping top tube on some bikes is more about saving weight in most cases. A smaller frame with a longer seat post can be lighter (depending on other design factors, of course).

In general women have proportionally longer legs and shorter torsos. While swapping stems or other components works for small changes it is really just a band aid fix for larger changes. For one thing a very short stem makes the bike much more difficult to handle. I wonder how many women think they have poor bike handling skills when a to short stem is the real problem.

Of course there is wide variation among both sexes, some men may find a better fit on a ‘woman’s frame’ and some women may fit better on a man’s frame.

Remember, the average human has one breast and one testicle :).

[Anachronism]

Forgot to add-

In general everyone should try to find the best fit for them before they start messing around with swapping parts out.

[Princhester]

@Anachronism

In general women have proportionally longer legs and shorter torsos.

And according to posters above, longer arms, which when you think about it leaves the length of arms/torso (ie from seat to hands) potentially about the same proportionally.

If you can’t fit the bike without an overly short stem, the frame is too small for you, it’s that simple. Get a bigger frame.

Your comments about “band aids” doesn’t fit with anything I have ever read in numerous articles on bike fitting, all of which suggest that unless you are that mythical beast the “perfectly average” size and shape, you should expect to have to change components slightly (at least) to get a perfect fit.

[Princhester]

Furthermore, the stuff about women and men’s proportions being different is rubbish anyway, I find with a little research.

A quick google finds a sample of pages from “Cycling for Women” by Gale Bernhardt. A couple of key quotes:

DOES GENDER MATTER?
The simple answer is no. Despite studies proving the contrary, the misconception that women are proportionately different from men endures. But in fact, while we are all individuals and have individual dimensions, in the critical dimensions for cycling, the difference between the average U.S. male and female is surprisingly small. Proportional to height, the male and female dimensions of leg length, hand length, and arm length are nearly identical.

Because bicycles are not fitted by overall height, Table 1.2 shows the differences in key body dimensions affecting bike fit for a male and a female of equal leg lengths. For people within this data set, there is very little difference in the leg-length dimensions. There is less than a half-inch difference in torso length and hand-grip point to shoulder length.

Half an inch. Woo hoo. Changing your stem length by that much sure is going to affect handling.

[Anachronism]

@Princhester

Furthermore, the stuff about women and men’s proportions being different is rubbish anyway, I find with a little research.

I don’t feel strongly enough about this to spend a ton of time on it so I will leave with this -

For the same height, women tend to have longer legs

Swami, V., Einon, D., and Furnham, A., The leg-to-body ratio as a human aesthetic criterion, Body Image, 3, 317 (2006).

http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/leg.body.ratio.pdf

[amarinth]

Princhester, should a person who is 5’6" with a 26" inseam have the same frame as a person who is 5’6" with a 30" inseam - just with different stems and seat posts?

[Princhester]

Anachronism the ratio you cite is not the relevant ratio.

Amarinth ideally no. But that is not the point. Go back and read my and Knorf’s posts. When you show signs of understanding those posts and why the points we make mean that your question is not relevant, we can talk more. You don’t seem to get it and until you show signs of getting to grips with the issues, we’ve taken it as far as we can.

[amarinth]

@Princhester

Amarinth ideally no. But that is not the point.

That’s exactly the point, because people have different proportions they may need frames of different proportions.

Getting those two people to get the same seat angle on the same frame (or even two frames that have the same proportions) by merely altering the stems and seat posts will be more difficult and provide a worse riding experience than getting those two people in the same seat angle on differently proportioned frames. But without an understanding of basic euclidean geometry, that can be hard to understand.

[Princhester]

Nope, you don’t get it. For a start, go back and check the thread title.