# Male Centrism at the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437 "2018-06-05T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/181 "2018-06-05T15:07:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Wrong. Educating the ignorant is not misogyny. **Contrary to what a correspondence school degree in Womyn’s Studies may have taught you** , disagreeing with a self identified female member of the species is not automatically misogyny. (bolding mine) When you throw crap like that into your argument, then it looks like misogyny to me. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/182 "2018-06-05T15:08:45Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > That’s a good start. What do you think a good solution might be? I don’t know, but there has to be more than the venting of frustration for something that will work for me. I respond more to reason, maybe reluctantly sometimes, but in the end I won’t shoot myself in the foot with stubbornness. Clear labeling is an important step. You can blame whoever you want when that hasn’t happened, but it hasn’t been the practice of the board to enforce that much. In most cases a mod steps in and alters a thread title voluntarily without mention. If the rules of this board are going to be respected that have to be applied in content-free manner. Unclear labeling of threads has to be addressed in every case. Obviously every case doesn’t require a warning, but even in the most innocent context has to be noted to remind us all of the importance of the rule. And you and others who have nothing positive to add and only want to attack those who disagree with you should stop it. Women can tell of their experiences here and in real life without lumping all men together, or all women for that matter. It’s one thing to talk about how something makes you feel, it’s quite another to attribute malevolent motivations to everything you don’t like. I understand the way a male dominated board like this colors the effect of far from important aspects of the problem. I myself hate anvils because i have to keep dodging them as they fall from the sky. Most of them don’t hit me, but I’ll curse the ones that aren’t even aimed at me. That’s great in some contexts, but we also need contexts where we have to deal with this on a dispassionate rational level. That may not be comforting to the people who feel they’ve been wronged, but I think it is a way that also has to be followed to find a solution. I’d hope a female Doper could start a GD thread on this subject to identify those who are disingenuous trolls. A female Doper not because the gender of the OP should matter, but to avoid the knee-jerk reactions of some Dopers who only seek to spout venom about this subject. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/183 "2018-06-05T15:10:38Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why isn’t it? Why should every thread every topic be subjected to an arbitrary set of likability? That’s borderline childish to demand that every topic meets with my approval isn’t it? > > And when did women become so fragile that Betty vs Veronica is triggering? Hmm… this slippery slope in action almost seems scripted. Since this is ALL going over your head, how about something simpler. How about agreeing that women have the right to have a thread about buying underwear without men expressing their opinion about boobs? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/184 "2018-06-05T15:12:51Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Go crawl in a hole. You’ve got a chip on your shoulder that you put there yourself. > > Like the rest of my critics you have nothing positive to offer. There’s not the least hint of a solution in this thread or the others. I’ve heard the same complaints over and over again, and the increasing distortion of my responses because I point out that the only solution offered is censorship. It’s censorship even if you ask nicely. Once someone has something constructive to say this discussion can move forward. I don’t care if you or anyone else wants to continue along this path, I’m being vilified simply for disagreeing with you and pointing out the over-reach to place blame on anyone who doesn’t jump up and down shouting “Men are evil pigs!”. This is how people “debate” here. The real board culture is ad hominem attacks, words and quotes taken out of context, hypocrisy, and arguments conducted in bad faith. It’s sad actually because this board does have many highly educated people. Unfortunately, it’s a game to them. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/185 "2018-06-05T15:14:55Z")
I actually agree with that. I know I gave up on the lot of you ages ago. But one wonders if you’ve plowed back through your own posts in search of a good-faith argument or (especially) a real effort at understanding a perspective not your own? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/186 "2018-06-05T15:14:58Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Would it be okay to let **Cesario** and **Stage Manager** back in as long as they limit themselves to _hypothetical_ child porn? They’re just two posters and those who don’t like child porn can ignore them, right? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/187 "2018-06-05T15:15:34Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Since this is ALL going over your head, how about something simpler. How about agreeing that women have the right to have a thread about buying underwear without men expressing their opinion about boobs? I think that was settled a while ago. It didn’t need as much brouhaha as was involved, the existing threadshitting policy should have covered it. On the other hand, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with men sharing their experiences in threads about what women think. Criticizing women for what they do think as happened in the Hooters thread is flat out wrong, and I don’t recall any noting there. I don’t like to report posts that aren’t spamming, I wish the mods could do more to read the threads, but considering what they get paid (it’s a negative number) I don’t think that will happen. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/188 "2018-06-05T15:19:12Z")
Good OP and some great contributions along the way. Personally I think bringing it up from time to time is the only possible approach to dealing with the issue. In a way it is similar to dealing with trolling. It can’t be dealt with through moderation without creating an entirely bloodless forum\*, and any discussion of it automatically fills up with examples of the exact problem it points out. \*That’s only sort of true, but although it is possible to have active messaging boards that are also strictly moderated to be nice in almost every way, it is not possible to convert an existing one without losing a lot of momentum. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/189 "2018-06-05T15:19:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > This is how people “debate” here. The real board culture is ad hominem attacks, words and quotes taken out of context, hypocrisy, and arguments conducted in bad faith. It’s sad actually because this board does have many highly educated people. Unfortunately, it’s a game to them. My ghod-It’s like your left brain doesn’t know what your right brain is saying. I can’t tell anymore if you are trolling or suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/190 "2018-06-05T15:22:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Hmm… this slippery slope in action almost seems scripted. Don’t beat about the bush - you have an accusation to make, at least have the guts to say it plainly. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/191 "2018-06-05T15:23:05Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Since this is ALL going over your head, how about something simpler. How about agreeing that women have the right to have a thread about buying underwear without men expressing their opinion about boobs? I’d agree with you. I think that’d be threadshitting. Oh man, now I’m a potty mouth. But that is the technical term. You won’t see me in a thread where women are discussing what to buy and cracking tit jokes. That’s rude and disrespectful. But I don’t have a problem with another thread that is tit jokes or pics or whatever. Now if this place devolved into porn gifs I wouldn’t be happy about it because I’m not here for nudes or that sort of discussion in general. I will tell you why I’m here. I like discussing topics that are “taboo” or borderline. That’s why I like the free speech, genetics in sport, a woman’s place, the Confederate Flag, etc. topics. But again, I see nothing wrong with telling people to not participate in x,y, or z if they don’t like x,y, or z. If I go to McDonald’s and get the caramel sundae I don’t get whiny because I’m not in the mood for a Filet-O-Fish. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/192 "2018-06-05T15:23:48Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > They’re just two posters and those who don’t like child porn can ignore them, right? Just two and both Male I believe. The Manopoly on paedophilia must be toppled! Lady Paedos Now! No more child molestation, make it Femalestation! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/193 "2018-06-05T15:27:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > My ghod-It’s like your left brain doesn’t know what your right brain is saying. I can’t tell anymore if you are trolling or suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder. That’d be example 1, ad-hominem attack. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/194 "2018-06-05T15:29:31Z")
Late to the monstro love party, but I didn’t want to be left out, so I’m a big fan of monstro too! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/195 "2018-06-05T15:35:41Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’d be example 1, ad-hominem attack. No, stupid, that’s just an insult. Don’t try and talk all fancy, it’s not a good look on you when you inevitably fuck it up. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/196 "2018-06-05T15:35:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I do notice one thing I didn’t mention: bringing up poor examples hurts the conversation. > > Look at how many guys are focused almost entirely on the “which character is hotter” threads. That just is not an issue that everyone agrees is a sexism problem. > > As a sex positive feminist, my solution is “Go make your own threads about sexy male characters.” Hell, I’ve even participated in a few, and I’m straight. But I can still have an opinion on which character I like better, or who I think his more handsome. > > Far better is talking about the assholes who pretend that false rape accusations are a huge problem. Or, hell, we could talk about how feelings are important, and not something to be ignored. We can talk about callousness or lack of empathy. Those are, IMHO, the real anti-women things that happen on this board–in result, if not in intention. A) Nobody wants to hear your sexist ass mansplaining what women SHOULD be talking about, especially from a creeper like you. 1. Shut up, BigTard. iii) No–really? You thought that THIS was the appropriate thread to tell women what to be upset about and how to express their thoughts, beliefs and feelings? _Seriously??_ Even for a sexist woman-phobe like you, BigTard, that’s pretty damned fucked up. Should they submit new thread ideas and posts to you for your approval? Or will you just school them when they don’t say what you want them to? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/197 "2018-06-05T15:37:32Z")
> [@fervour](#): > > > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > > I dunno if I’ve ever said this, but you’re one of my favorite posters, even on the occasion that we disagree: your perspective on a variety of matters, from science to relationships (or the lack thereof) to race is pretty interesting and thought-provoking. I hope the board remains one you want to hang around. > > As much as I want your voice, it belongs to you. You get to choose. I hope you choose to stay------I hope you let me know if you leave. I don’t want to live in an on-line world without you. I’d manage reality somehow. > > You have enriched my world. Oh my gosh, I had no idea you cared. That’s so swee– > [@fervour](#): > > Monstro, as much as I want your voice, it belongs to you. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/198 "2018-06-05T15:39:00Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You are full of shit. I don’t do those things. You are labeling anyone who disagrees with you as misogynist because you have no rational argument on your side and can contribute nothing except hate speech. Hate speech, lol. Seriously, dude. I know when you started that ATMB thread you weren’t up to date on the Skald stuff. All good so far. But then when the real issue was explained to you, you called it “whining” and “childish nonsense”, and dug in your heels defending Skald’s actions and calling them “harmless”. That’s why you got the response you did. Is this rational enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/199 "2018-06-05T15:40:28Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I disagree on two points. > > [ol] > [li]Whether this thread is about one to the exclusion of the other.[/li][li]Whether this thread should be - or even can be - about one to the exclusion of the other.[/li][/ol] > > At least I think I disagree on these points. Unless what you’re really saying is not that it’s all about women’s experience and not about men’s actions, but rather that it’s about both these things but only from the perspective of women, with men’s perspectives completely suppressed (other than that of men whose entire perspective is “whatever women say goes”). My point is that some posters seem to think the male-focused PoV issue is the one that really matters, is the interesting part. The female PoV is only discussed in terms of the male PoV.en are PCs, women are NPCs. It’s like when we have a thread about FGM, it always turns into a discussion of the ethics of circumcision, FGM has to be discussed only in terms of to what degree it is like or inlike circumcision, etc. For many (male) posters, FGM is only interesting where it connects to the male experience and thebthread quickly becomes about that. . ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/200 "2018-06-05T15:40:48Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I think the main deficit comes from the moderation. People are not allowed to respond to posts in the manner in which they deserve, so they don’t. In addition, there are thousands of active posters, so having a few active full-on sexists and racists seems small actually. > > I have tended to disengage from gender and racial discussions here, both because on the one hand I am restricted to an artificial politeness standard, and on the other, there are too many people who throw about generalizations about white males without offering caveats to respond to all of them. And who are you to determine what a post deserves? You are implying that the evil mods stop you from insulting posters who post content you don’t like. You can always use the pit. But why should other posters, who might enjoy certain threads, have to deal with hostile and bitter malcontents ruining an otherwise peaceful thread? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=11)