# Male Centrism at the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437 "2018-06-05T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/201 "2018-06-05T15:41:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why isn’t it? Why should every thread every topic be subjected to an arbitrary set of likability? That’s borderline childish to demand that every topic meets with my approval isn’t it? > > And when did women become so fragile that Betty vs Veronica is triggering? Hmm… this slippery slope in action almost seems scripted. Similarly childish, and conveniently in-line with maintaining a status quo where those who dominate don’t have to change or self-evaluate, is to insist that anyone who doesn’t like how the loudest personalities do things is free to just go somewhere else. Imagine a room with 10 people in it. 2 of them are engaging in action X that reliably makes 4 others uncomfortable. The remaining 4 may or may not have opinions on action X either way, but it doesn’t make them feel particularly strongly. The question is, what to do? If the 2, upon hearing that their actions make some uncomfortable, say “well, that’s their problem, they’re free to cover their ears, or go somewhere else,” they are in essence saying “I care less about the comfort of those 4 than I do about my own joy in doing X. My satisfaction at doing X is more important to me than your participation/presence in the room.” There’s nothing inherently wrong in making that calculation; we all do it all the time. Determining to what degree our own pursuits take precedence over the convenience/health/success/joy of others. But, it does mean that _you don’t care enough to change_. And you’ve gotta own that. Putting it on others for being too sensitive, or too hypocritical, or too whatever is just a deflection and a ducking of responsibility for your own actions. I don’t know that there’s something that _must_ be done about this issue, or that every single instance of men posting in “male-centered” conversations is wrong, but let’s get one thing straight. The essence of the problem isn’t that those who are bothered by those posts don’t understand, it’s that many of those who engage in those conversations don’t care that it bothers people. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/202 "2018-06-05T15:41:45Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The OP is making the same observation I’ve quietly made with regards to race\ > The board is not this liberal haven the conservatives posters portray it is. And it shows in the lack of diversity. I agree; good example. > [@MandaJo](#): > > \ I think that’s why the bra threads were such a big deal: it added insult to injury that even in a bra-fitting thread, the schema had to be male. > > I think the best thing that can happen from this is just heightened awareness of how pervasive this is. ”Pervasive” – that’s the right word. It’s a tone on the board, not just two or three recent threads, and two or three posters. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/203 "2018-06-05T15:42:00Z")
Keep in mind that all the mods suggested was a NSFW prefix on his thread titles, which is a pretty common practice among the Interwebs. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/204 "2018-06-05T15:42:47Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > Hate speech, lol. Seriously, dude. I know when you started that ATMB thread you weren’t up to date on the Skald stuff. All good so far. But then when the real issue was explained to you, you called it “whining” and “childish nonsense”, and dug in your heels defending Skald’s actions and calling them “harmless”. That’s why you got the response you did. Is this rational enough for you? The whining I was referring to was those who clearly wanted censorship as a solution and were butthurt by the existence of material they found objectionable, and then tried to justify their viewpoints by pointing out an arbitrary mod instruction. Skald including disclaimers of no NSFW content was harmless. Keep working on the rational part, you’re getting closer. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/205 "2018-06-05T15:43:04Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > \ > so team MRA are always saying if we don’t like certain things, don’t read them and we are _absolutely_ doing that. Yup. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > \ I never thought of it as being as pervasive as many women seem to feel.\ We don’t “seem to feel” – we DO feel. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/206 "2018-06-05T15:44:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s a real convincing refutation of their argument you have there. :rolleyes: I want to be clear about this, I like **Left Hand**. He and I just have oil and water personalities and end up sparring with each other a lot. I don’t blame him, it’s more my fault than his. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/207 "2018-06-05T15:45:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Skald including disclaimers of no NSFW content was harmless. Says you. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/208 "2018-06-05T15:45:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, stupid, that’s just an insult. Don’t try and talk all fancy, it’s not a good look on you when you inevitably fuck it up. Ah, another example 1! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/209 "2018-06-05T15:46:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Did you look at the thread I started in ATMB? No moderation there, totally off the rails simply for asking the question. I don’t need a safe space, but I know a Pit thread is not the place for rational discussion. The Pit has often been the place on the Dope where we have the best, most rational discussions (if you just tune out the squabbling). > [@TriPolar](#): > > \ If it would help I’d support a Locker Room forum for men to act like the teenage boys most of us are in some way\ Oh dear God, no! It completely misses the point, and would actually make things worse. > [@Jane\_Elliot](#): > > I’ll come out of lurker mode to say that the OP is 100% correct. This board isn’t bad as far as it goes, but the good ole boys club is what keeps me from doing much besides reading. When you tell a person “just ignore it”, “don’t click on the thread” etc, you are saying that you don’t care if women are here, as long as you can continue to have a boys club. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/210 "2018-06-05T15:46:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Says you. Indeed. How were you harmed by those disclaimers? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/211 "2018-06-05T15:46:39Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Ah, another example 1! Of an insult? Well, yes, Captain Obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/212 "2018-06-05T15:47:07Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m just the kind of person who analyzes an issue as objectively as I can, over analyzing and with the limited objectivity that any of us have. So, I know this is part of your identity, and I know questioning identities is fraught. But my first interaction with you was when I was bringing up a fairly well-known and replicated and uncontroversial idea from child psychology (Piaget’s [conservation experiments](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnArvcWaH6I)), and you just rejected them out of hand, for pages and pages. You didn’t read up on them, you didn’t listen to what folks were saying, you just called bullshit over and over. Eventually, IIRC, you started reaching for some sort molecular arrangement explanation of how the six-year-olds were understanding the question better than the researchers, rather than admit that you didn’t understand childhood psychology better than the folks who’d dedicated their lives to studying it. Years later I think you admitted your error, which, y’know, points in your favor. But it gave me a powerful impression of how you approached arguments: once your back is up, I’m not sure you do analyze things with anything approaching objectivity. Which brings us to this: > [@](#): > > I can tell anyone I want what I think feminism is, just as you or anyone else can. Of course you can–which is why I said that you can’t do it with any credibility. You can certainly describe your own understanding of feminism, with a great deal of credibility. But when you’re telling women what real feminists believe, with the very clear implication that they’re not real feminists? I don’t know you’ll find many people taking you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/213 "2018-06-05T15:51:01Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Indeed. How were you harmed by those disclaimers? How is anyone in a virtual community harmed when its own rules are flagrantly pissed on and the valid concerns of an entire sector of its membership is openly held in contempt? That way. Also, it didn’t do my opinion of Skald much good, either, I’ll admit. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/214 "2018-06-05T15:52:56Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Similarly childish, and conveniently in-line with maintaining a status quo where those who dominate don’t have to change or self-evaluate, is to insist that anyone who doesn’t like how the loudest personalities do things is free to just go somewhere else. > > Imagine a room with 10 people in it. 2 of them are engaging in action X that reliably makes 4 others uncomfortable. The remaining 4 may or may not have opinions on action X either way, but it doesn’t make them feel particularly strongly. > > The question is, what to do? If the 2, upon hearing that their actions make some uncomfortable, say “well, that’s their problem, they’re free to cover their ears, or go somewhere else,” they are in essence saying “I care less about the comfort of those 4 than I do about my own joy in doing X. My satisfaction at doing X is more important to me than your participation/presence in the room.” > > There’s nothing inherently wrong in making that calculation; we all do it all the time. Determining to what degree our own pursuits take precedence over the convenience/health/success/joy of others. But, it does mean that _you don’t care enough to change_. And you’ve gotta own that. Putting it on others for being too sensitive, or too hypocritical, or too whatever is just a deflection and a ducking of responsibility for your own actions. > > I don’t know that there’s something that _must_ be done about this issue, or that every single instance of men posting in “male-centered” conversations is wrong, but let’s get one thing straight. The essence of the problem isn’t that those who are bothered by those posts don’t understand, it’s that many of those who engage in those conversations don’t care that it bothers people. The solution is for the women to post more threads. It’s not like the server is a Commodore 64. At least I hope not. Maybe that’s why avatars are disabled. But anyways, if the ratio of non-spam content is too high, whatever that means, the problem can be solved by the creation of other content. I think the ratio of conservative content is too low. I’m not going to demand the liberals post less. And honestly, if a Betty vs Veronica thread is perceived as offensive, misogynistic, oppression then I don’t think the problem is the thread. Ladies, you can make an Archie vs Jughead poll. I’ll even vote. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/215 "2018-06-05T15:54:36Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The whining I was referring to was those who clearly wanted censorship as a solution… Bullshit. It isn’t and has never been about censorship. Keep fucking that pooch though. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/216 "2018-06-05T15:54:57Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > How about agreeing that women have the right to have a thread about buying underwear without men expressing their opinion about boobs? Do men have the right to a thread about pants without women commenting? ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/217 "2018-06-05T15:56:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The whining I was referring to was those who clearly wanted censorship as a solution and were butthurt by the existence of material they found objectionable, and then tried to justify their viewpoints by pointing out an arbitrary mod instruction. Skald including disclaimers of no NSFW content was harmless. Keep working on the rational part, you’re getting closer. Skald admitted in that thread that was he was mocking the new rule, because he was irritated that he had to include disclaimers for his humiliation/incest porn fetish, and you continue to insist it was harmless. Yeah, you know how hysterical us womenfolk get, amirite? We’re so whiny when it comes to surprise gang rape porn being dropped into posts with no warning, we should just get over it already. And when the person responsible for doing so gets petulant and butthurt in response, you still think its okay. So, again, you’re part of the problem. Also, fuck off if you think you’re going to condescend to me. This board is truly amazing sometimes, and I don’t mean that in a good way. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/218 "2018-06-05T15:56:30Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The solution is for the women to post more threads. It’s not the \*ratio \*of the misogynist content to non- that is the problem, idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/219 "2018-06-05T15:56:36Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Do men have the right to a thread about pants without women commenting? Is that a real world problem on this board? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/220 "2018-06-05T15:56:41Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s why I like the free speech, genetics in sport, a **woman’s place** , the Confederate Flag, etc. topics. \ \ heh [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=12)