# Male Centrism at the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437 "2018-06-05T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/221 "2018-06-05T15:58:12Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Do men have the right to a thread about pants without women commenting? About their dicks, specifically, or commenting in general? Because one is what \*\*Morgenstern \*\*wrote, and one is your idiotic strawman version. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/222 "2018-06-05T15:58:19Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > My point is that some posters seem to think the male-focused PoV issue is the one that really matters, is the interesting part. The female PoV is only discussed in terms of the male PoV.en are PCs, women are NPCs. (I’m not sure what “PCs” and “NPCs” means here. But I assume your third sentence is saying something along the lines of your first two.) ISTM that if anything the opposite is true. Because the only way you get to this notion that the female POV is treated as something which doesn’t matter is by treating any expression of a male POV as effectively squelching the female POV. So that the only way to effectively allow the female POV to “matter” would be by creating a male-perspective-free zone, where females discuss their perspectives (on matters of interest to both genders) with no male perspective other than “You Go, Girl!”. But perhaps you can give me some examples of what you mean. What would be an example of a male perspective being treated as “the one that really matters” which goes beyond simply having a perspective altogether? > [@](#): > > It’s like when we have a thread about FGM, it always turns into a discussion of the ethics of circumcision, FGM has to be discussed only in terms of to what degree it is like or inlike circumcision, etc. For many (male) posters, FGM is only interesting where it connects to the male experience and thebthread quickly becomes about that. . I think I disagree with this. I say “think I” because I don’t recall participating in these discussions. But I probably disagree anyway because I think under the standard protocols of rational discourse, male circumcision is an inevitable focal point of discussion when discussing FGM. Those standard protocols including an attempt to find principles which can be applied in the particular situation at hand but which are also consistently applied in other circumstances. Male circumcision is widely practiced and accepted. If you base your opposition of FGM on a principle which would also apply to male circumcision, then that raises an issue of whether you would also apply that same principle to circumcision, and if not why not. Personally I think this is a perfectly valid way to deal with issues involving principles, and so do a lot of other people. Even if one were to disagree with this for whatever reason, it doesn’t mean that people who bring up male circumcision in a FGM thread are doing it because only male issues are of interest to them - they might just be people who feel that intellectual consistency has a value. But again, I’ve not read those threads, that I can recall. So perhaps you have something which goes beyond the above. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/223 "2018-06-05T15:58:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s not the \*ratio \*of the misogynist content to non- that is the problem, idiot. Oh it’s the existence of Betty vs Veronica? You need a safe place, snowflake? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/224 "2018-06-05T15:58:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So, I know this is part of your identity, and I know questioning identities is fraught. But my first interaction with you was when I was bringing up a fairly well-known and replicated and uncontroversial idea from child psychology (Piaget’s [conservation experiments](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnArvcWaH6I)), and you just rejected them out of hand, for pages and pages. You didn’t read up on them, you didn’t listen to what folks were saying, you just called bullshit over and over. Eventually, IIRC, you started reaching for some sort molecular arrangement explanation of how the six-year-olds were understanding the question better than the researchers, rather than admit that you didn’t understand childhood psychology better than the folks who’d dedicated their lives to studying it. > > Years later I think you admitted your error, which, y’know, points in your favor. But it gave me a powerful impression of how you approached arguments: once your back is up, I’m not sure you do analyze things with anything approaching objectivity. Just to note, I rejected the way I argued the subject. Piaget’s experiments are still invalid. We can begin that one again elsewhere if you like. But I hope we can find a subject to agree on someday instead. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/225 "2018-06-05T16:03:55Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > \ > And honestly, if a Betty vs Veronica thread is perceived as offensive, misogynistic, oppression then I don’t think the problem is the thread. Ladies, you can make an Archie vs Jughead poll. I’ll even vote. Five pages in, and you still think this thread is about a few dumb threads? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/226 "2018-06-05T16:03:56Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Sex and sexual attraction are normal and natural biological functions. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > How the fuck would you know? By regularly visiting a syphilitic purple polka dotted squid prostitute. Duh. [You DON’T, however, want to know the biological particulars, tho.] ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/227 "2018-06-05T16:05:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You need a safe place, snowflake? Says the guy who like coming here because he’s free to discuss _ahem_ genetics in sports :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/228 "2018-06-05T16:07:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > \ > ISTM that if anything the opposite is true. Because the only way you get to this notion that the female POV is treated as something which doesn’t matter is by treating any expression of a male POV as effectively squelching the female POV. So that the only way to effectively allow the female POV to “matter” would be by creating a male-perspective-free zone, where females discuss their perspectives (on matters of interest to both genders) with no male perspective other than “You Go, Girl!”.\ I can’t speak for all the woman Dopers, but what I’m looking for is a message board where the tone is one where women are treated with respect and dignity, and women are talked about with respect and dignity - like we’re real human beings or something. I’m not looking for any gender’s perspective being treated like the One True Perspective. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/229 "2018-06-05T16:09:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Late to the monstro love party, but I didn’t want to be left out, so I’m a big fan of monstro too! I love you too. I love so many posters. (OK, maybe “love” is a bit strong ). I feel like I grew up with some of you, I have been posting here so long. It is kind crazy! And I have learned so much. Even though I have disagreed with a number of folks through the ages–sometimes rather vehemently–I still have managed to keep much respect for the majority of Dopers. And ya’ll have humanized issues for me that I would otherwise be detached from. Like, when the teachers sarted striking, I immediately thought of \*\* LOD\*\* and **Manda Jo**. I can’t help but think they have made more sympathetic to the hardships we place on public educators. Seeing folks like you try to reason with bigots has helped me to see that not all white guys are blind to what is going on in thr world. And I always look forward to what **John Mace** has to say on stuff. Sometimes we disagree, but it is good to see the other side presented in a fair, non-obnoxious way. I don’t come here for “taboo”. Reddit is full of “taboo” so that is where I go when I need my fix. And while I am a fan of Reddit, I don’t want this place to emulate it. I like that this place is not filled with trolls and people just posting “where do babby come from” threads. I like that I “know” the posters here and that we have grown up together. If everyone starts taking the “scroll past threads you don’t like” tack, we will end up with a message board that will resemble all the other trash sites out there. It won’t be special anymore. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/230 "2018-06-05T16:16:08Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Do men have the right to a thread about pants without women commenting? JFC, you wouldn’t know a clue if it stuck its dick in your ear and fuck-started your brain. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/231 "2018-06-05T16:19:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Says the guy who like coming here because he’s free to discuss _ahem_ genetics in sports :dubious: Does that trigger you? Do I need a spoiler box? You think humans are the one species in the universe that has DNA but that DNA plays no role? You are delusional. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/232 "2018-06-05T16:22:39Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Does that trigger you? Do I need a spoiler box? You think humans are the one species in the universe that has DNA but that DNA plays no role? You are delusional. You’re trolling again. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/233 "2018-06-05T16:23:19Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > Skald admitted in that thread that was he was mocking the new rule, because he was irritated that he had to include disclaimers for his humiliation/incest porn fetish, and you continue to insist it was harmless. Yeah, you know how hysterical us womenfolk get, amirite? We’re so whiny when it comes to surprise gang rape porn being dropped into posts with no warning, we should just get over it already. And when the person responsible for doing so gets petulant and butthurt in response, you still think its okay. So, again, you’re part of the problem. I take it that my questions regarding **Cesario** and **Stage Manager** are making some people uncomfortable. Hypothetical rape is fine but hypothetical child porn isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/234 "2018-06-05T16:23:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The solution is for the women to post more threads. It’s not like the server is a Commodore 64. At least I hope not. Maybe that’s why avatars are disabled. . . . right, so you don’t care, and/or you don’t concede that there’s a problem. Just say it and move on. The other logic/arguing around it is just nonsense. Your actions (or the behavior you’re defending) are upsetting to the people you’re sharing the room/playground with. Your “solution” is for you to keep doing you, and for them to figure out how to change themselves and their behavior in order to not be so upset. Again, it’s a calculus we all do all the time; I get it. But the solution where you don’t make any changes to help encourage the happiness/participation of those who are upset while they live with it or leave is just one solution (and also accurately describes the situation as it stands now). There are others that involve those who are doing the offensive posting listening to how those who are upset are feeling, and trying to find ways as a group to come to understandings about behavior and its consequences. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/235 "2018-06-05T16:24:54Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You’re trolling again. I’m not trolling. I’m participating in the board culture. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/236 "2018-06-05T16:27:59Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Pro Tip 2- Participation in this message board is entirely voluntary. Pro Tip 3 - You are fucking retarded and a fuck shit. Please leave this board and never return you cactus fucker. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/237 "2018-06-05T16:29:27Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > I take it that my questions regarding **Cesario** and **Stage Manager** are making some people uncomfortable. Hypothetical rape is fine but hypothetical child porn isn’t? What? When did I ever say that? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/238 "2018-06-05T16:31:29Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > . . . right, so you don’t care, and/or you don’t concede that there’s a problem. Just say it and move on. The other logic/arguing around it is just nonsense. Your actions (or the behavior you’re defending) are upsetting to the people you’re sharing the room/playground with. Your “solution” is for you to keep doing you, and for them to figure out how to change themselves and their behavior in order to not be so upset. > > Again, it’s a calculus we all do all the time; I get it. But the solution where you don’t make any changes to help encourage the happiness/participation of those who are upset while they live with it or leave is just one solution (and also accurately describes the situation as it stands now). There are others that involve those who are doing the offensive posting listening to how those who are upset are feeling, and trying to find ways as a group to come to understandings about behavior and its consequences. Yeah, I don’t see a problem, other than a manufactured one, with a few threads that a couple women don’t want to participate in. The problem I see is that a few malcontents want to censor and prohibit others who enjoy certain content, which if rated by the movie board may be PG or PG-13, and are mad that there isn’t universal agreement with their subjective judgement. This fourth wave feminism where the symbol of the strength and oppressiveness of the so-called patriarchy is the existence of a Betty vs Wilma poll is almost self-parodying. But, that said, what is your solution? What exactly are the demands that need to be met? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/239 "2018-06-05T16:32:43Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Pro Tip 3 - You are fucking retarded and a fuck shit. Please leave this board and never return you cactus fucker. Ah, when Tourette’s meets a stroke. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/240 "2018-06-05T16:34:16Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > But I can remember a time when ‘How you doing…’, and titty jokes could be inserted in any thread without raising an eyebrow. But that changed because women spoke up. Totally agree. Those things were completely inappropriate and we’re better for them no longer being acceptable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=13)