# Male Centrism at the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437 "2018-06-05T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/281 "2018-06-05T17:58:25Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > There is context. Should everyone be treated with respect and dignity (if they haven’t abrogated it with their own behaviour)? Yes. Does treating women with disrespect have more impact on them than treating men with disrespect? Yes, probably. It’s the same kind of thing as **monstro’s** earlier racism example; it’s not great to be racist against white people, but it doesn’t have the same impact as being racist against a minority. > > Men always like to trot this kind of thing out when we’re talking about things like women’s rights. The playing field is NOT level, and no amount of false equivalencies can make it that way. This argument might make sense in a setting where gender is apparent but in a purely text medium genders are irrelevant, you aren’t restricted to 75% of a man’s posts. Are you sure you know which posters are male & female? I’ve no idea about most so everyone is treated based on behaviour (Morgenstern could be a woman, she’s still a twat). It’s actual equality in this context regardless of how equal things are in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/282 "2018-06-05T17:58:46Z")
The OP’s list of threads actually just brought home to me how many discussions go on here at the SDMB. I only remember seeing a couple of those threads, and I don’t think I’ve actually opened any of them. My point is that it’s hard to extrapolate about male-centrism based on a handful of threads. There’s a lot going on here, and I don’t think it’s possible to reach a general conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/283 "2018-06-05T18:00:37Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Naah, mate - not like I didn’t know \*exactly \*what you are from previous threads. That’s why I give any post from you exactly zero fucks, anywhere. Sounds like someone’s triggered. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/284 "2018-06-05T18:12:17Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Sounds like someone’s triggered. Get over yourself. Everyone else has, years ago. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/285 "2018-06-05T18:27:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Get over yourself. Everyone else has, years ago. Surely, you can do better than that. It’s the pit! Be creative. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/286 "2018-06-05T18:29:51Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Pro Tip 3 - You are fucking retarded and a fuck shit. Please leave this board and never return you cactus fucker. I’l make you a deal, sport. I’ll do that if you’ll do the same. First one to come back owes the other $1000. That includes coming back under a different name or “just to lurk.” Never means never. If you aren’t interested in that deal, go back to wondering why your mother didn’t abort you like she should have and posting drivel here, but don’t bother me again. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/287 "2018-06-05T18:30:23Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > This argument might make sense in a setting where gender is apparent but in a purely text medium genders are irrelevant, you aren’t restricted to 75% of a man’s posts. > > Are you sure you know which posters are male & female? I’ve no idea about most so everyone is treated based on behaviour (Morgenstern could be a woman, she’s still a twat). It’s actual equality in this context regardless of how equal things are in the real world. No, everyone is assumed to be male unless they declare otherwise. This isn’t the same as being treated the same. The default assumption is that everyone is approaching situations from a male point of view–with the advantages of male privilege, without the advantages of female privilege, with the worries and fascinations and background knowledge of a man. It’s so pervasive it’s hard to point out. Assuming I’m a dude, that we are all dudes, is not being neutral any more than assuming everyone is right-handed means you treat right handed and left handed people they same. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/288 "2018-06-05T18:32:45Z")
n/m ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/289 "2018-06-05T18:36:34Z")
You know, there was a time in our history, when women were told to cover their bodies. That there bodies are a sin, and they should be ashamed. I feel like this is what’s happening now to men WRT to their own sexuality. What’s really frustrating to me is, some of the women and men on this board are writing off some of the guys that are actually on their side. I mean, fuck! We can BOTH be on the same team and still disagree on the best solutions. To win this battle, you need an army, and NOT a posse. And to achieve that, you’re going to have to be a little more all encompassing. Also, if you want to convince people to not be a sexist, maybe don’t be a sexist yourself in the process. I get, that after hundreds of years of oppression and objectification, this is a BIG ask. But I feel it’s a necessity to achieve the given goals. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/290 "2018-06-05T18:37:09Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Surely, you can do better than that. It’s the pit! Be creative. You’re not worth the effort. Now, fuck off, and don’t call me Shirley. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/291 "2018-06-05T18:40:06Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > You know, there was a time in our history, when women were told to cover their bodies. That there bodies are a sin, and they should be ashamed. > > I feel like this is what’s happening now to men WRT to their own sexuality. you forgot the part about how forcing women to do that is out of the desire to hold women responsible for the thoughts and actions of men. it isn’t that their “bodies are sinful,” it’s that they’re committing the sin of “tempting men.” you know, same as “she shouldn’t have worn that.” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/292 "2018-06-05T18:44:43Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > You know, there was a time in our history, when women were told to cover their bodies. That there bodies are a sin, and they should be ashamed. I feel like this is what’s happening now to men WRT to their own sexuality. Louis CK, is that you? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/293 "2018-06-05T18:48:46Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > you forgot the part about how forcing women to do that is out of the desire to hold women responsible for the thoughts and actions of men. > > it isn’t that their “bodies are sinful,” it’s that they’re committing the sin of “tempting men.” you know, same as “she shouldn’t have worn that.” I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. But it doesn’t negate my point. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/294 "2018-06-05T18:52:15Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > Are men here treated with or talked about with respect and dignity? This thread is full of counter examples. I thought about this a bit more, and I have two more things to say; the first is that you are taking out an important word from my first post - I said, “what I’m looking for is a message board where the tone is one where women are treated with respect and dignity;” I wasn’t talking about specifics, but the overall tone. Second, you seem to be objecting to the idea of treating women with dignity and respect. I didn’t realize I had set the bar that high. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/295 "2018-06-05T18:53:05Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. But it doesn’t negate my point. What is your point then? how are men being told to “suppress their sexuality?” is “not acting like a fucking 14-year-old pig around women” somehow that much of a burden? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/296 "2018-06-05T18:57:06Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > You know, there was a time in our history, when women were told to cover their bodies. That there bodies are a sin, and they should be ashamed. I feel like this is what’s happening now to men WRT to their own sexuality. > > What’s really frustrating to me is, some of the women and men on this board are writing off some of the guys that are actually on their side. I mean, fuck! We can BOTH be on the same team and still disagree on the best solutions. > > To win this battle, you need an army, and NOT a posse. And to achieve that, you’re going to have to be a little more all encompassing. > > Also, if you want to convince people to not be a sexist, maybe don’t be a sexist yourself in the process. I get, that after hundreds of years of oppression and objectification, this is a BIG ask. But I feel it’s a necessity to achieve the given goals. It wasn’t that long ago that the sight of a feminine ankle was expected to inflame and tempt a man behind all reason. Our bodies weren’t just sinful, it was that men couldn’t be expected to control their baser instincts. Are women telling men that their bodies are sinful, that their sexuality is shameful, or that maybe everyone can control their baser instincts, even in conversation, and treat each other with respect? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/297 "2018-06-05T19:05:11Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > What is your point then? how are men being told to “suppress their sexuality?” > > is “not acting like a fucking 14-year-old pig around women” somehow that much of a burden? Did you read my whole post? Or just the first two sentences? My point is clear: If you’re going to shame men for being sexual creatures, then good luck winning the battle. FTR: I don’t participate in “Who’s hotter” threads. I find them juvenile. But I’m not going to begrudge others because they find the female form attractive and wish to discuss that with others of like mind. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/298 "2018-06-05T19:07:40Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Are women telling men that their bodies are sinful, **that their sexuality is shameful** , or that maybe everyone can control their baser instincts, even in conversation, and treat each other with respect? Responding to the bolded part: Yes, that’s exactly what some women are doing. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/299 "2018-06-05T19:15:54Z")
One of the biggest problems I’ve observed over time is that when posters say things that are kind of horrifying about sex, women, rape, what have you, there’s often not much reaction from the other posters in the thread. This normalizes that sort of behavior and contributes to making this board a less friendly place for women. Especially so when a popular poster is behind the horrifying stuff, as is the case with Skald. People don’t want to call him on it by pitting him because they know exactly what the reaction will be. I understand the instinct to give leeway to longtime posters - some of you have hung in there for almost 20 years, and that’s nothing to sneeze at. But this board, like the internet in general, gets all kinds, including creepsters. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves. A couple of examples I was able to dig up: When I pitted [Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=841826) a few months back, one of the things I addressed was a story he’s told several times on the board before about switching places with a male friend when the friend was fooling around with his girlfriend - in other words, Shagnasty got in bed with a girl and fooled around with her without her knowledge. I noted in the thread that when he’s told the story before, there wasn’t a lot of reaction from people, and I questioned why. This sort of thing is what contributes to making this board not such a friendly place for women. A couple of people raise their eyebrows, and that’s usually that, and it’s brushed aside. In [a thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529028) about sexual attraction to underage or family members, there’s some of this too. This thread is the debut of Cesario (I believe), who comes in on page 2, but just on the first page we get these gems in response to this OP (by Claude Remains, another board pedo): > [@Claude Remains](#): > > Have you ever been sexually attracted to a family member or a person of an inappropriate age? How did you deal with it? > [@pancakes3](#): > > everyone. pussy ain’t got no face (or age). Pretty fucked up, yeah? But it gets no response. In the same thread: > [@Lumpy](#): > > I believe I once posted here about a friend’s eighteen month-old daughter who decided to put on an uninhibited masturbatory display while we were gaming. I’d have been put in jail just for my thoughts if telepathy were real. And no I don’t fixate on little girls, it’s just… wanton female is wanton female. > I am so going to Hell… Even more fucked up. That one got a few responses, by mostly female posters (surprise!) but again, it’s brushed aside. Why? Why is that sort of thing not objectionable to everyone? And in Skald’s case, he posts a thread with a surprise reference to gang rape/incest/humiliation porn, admits in the same thread that the inspiration for that came from a real porn site he used to frequent, and when a new rule is made asking that he disclose that there’s upsetting content in an otherwise innocuous looking thread, he mocks the rules and admits to being irritated at having to do so. And people still defend him, characterize the critics as being SJW/libtards/easily triggered special snowflakes, call the complaints whining, attempt to rules-lawyer the new rules to death, on and on and on. Why would you do that? In this case, I think it’s a combination of sexism/misogyny and of some Dopers being unwilling to believe that a longtime and/or popular poster is creepy and fucked up despite plenty of [evidence](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13352505&postcount=12) to the contrary. There’s more examples of this out there, but that’s what I was able to think of off the top of my head and able to find easily. That’s one change I would love to see is more pushback against this type of stuff, and not just from female posters. For those who want to know how they can help, that’s what you could do. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/300 "2018-06-05T19:19:37Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Responding to the bolded part: Yes, that’s exactly what some women are doing. Maybe some women have been. More women (and men) have been interested in discussing and acknowledging the underlying issue. Some men have continued to be dismissive of our reactions to the tone of the board in general. We have been told that our response seems “scripted,” that discussion of an issue is tantamount to censorship, that we are sexist, that instead of objecting, we should just ignore whatever is bothering us- no, #NotAllMen. But enough. To be clear- be a sexual creature! I am. I’m not ashamed, and neither should you be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=16)