# Male Centrism at the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437 "2018-06-05T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/321 "2018-06-05T20:39:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Not to say that the issue being raised is not a legitimate issue, and - like most things in life - it’s part of a picture with competing concerns. But depict it as “_Just don’t be an asshole. It isn’t hard_” is not valid. Funny, “Don’t be a jerk” - which I’d argue is a lesser sin than being an asshole - is literally a guiding principle here. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/322 "2018-06-05T20:39:49Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > What’s wrong with you? > > It seems to me the only thing about this board you enjoy, the only thing that really lights you up, is your “You liberals sure are stupid” act. Don’t you ever get tired of that? Don’t you ever feel the desire to act like a normal human being? > > Thing is, this community, such as it is, means a lot to you. At least you spend a lot of time here. But to what end? What about it gives you so much enjoyment? Why can’t you just go comment on YouTube videos or something? > > You offer nothing positive or substantial here, it’s just Argument Clinic for you. You’re not changing minds, you’re not performing for the lurkers. The only one who cares is you. So what’s wrong with you? no shit. there’s any number of boards out there where he can piss and moan amongst MRA incels about how awful things are for him. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/323 "2018-06-05T20:42:17Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > You know, there was a time in our history, when women were told to cover their bodies. That there bodies are a sin, and they should be ashamed. I feel like this is what’s happening now to men WRT to their own sexuality. S’funny, I’ve never felt like I have to be ashamed of my sexuality, here or in broader society. But then again, my sexuality isn’t founded on misogyny, so I easily recognize that running out of patience with the latter doesn’t affect me, and I should applaud it… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/324 "2018-06-05T20:43:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > But I actually have some good ladyscaping tips! Fine I’ll keep them to myself. Or start a thread clearly labeled “Men - what are your preferences for ladyscaping NFSW”. Or yeah, keep them to yourself. > [@](#): > > Seriously though, these are publicly accessible forums. If you want private discriminatory discussion use PMs or a different type of social media. Women should not have to go to a “private discussion” for discussing, say, bras as if they were something shameful that need to be hidden and never spoken of in polite company, and they don’t need their serious questions and concerns to be the target of juvenile mockery. Just as men should be able to, as an example, have a discussion about male circumcision without their concerns being dismissed, being mocked as pussies because they’re not happy with their foreskin or lack of one, or told to “get over it”, or having women come in and talk about how ugly uncircumcised penises are (which sentiment is far from universal anyhow). _That is the point_ - women have been (because it’s been awhile since I’ve seen one and _maybe_ things have changed…) DENIED their ability to have public discussion in a public forum because of a subset of men who insist on threadshitting. > [@](#): > > As long as people aren’t threadshitting and are following the sub-forum specific rules I don’t see the problem with a wide range of viewpoints. That’s the problem - there has been a LOT of threadshitting in the past. In addition, you have women saying their threads have been shit in and men saying naw… that’s just us having fun! Um… OK, some guys apparently have fun shitting in other peoples’ threads… > [@](#): > > So if the menfolk are invading a thread and posting off topic nonsense, report them. The moderators around here, for the most part, are good. Except, as noted, it was a long hard fight for women to get the moderators to get off their asses and STOP some of the chronic threadshitting that was going on. At least some of the people doing it were clueless that their “fun” was threadshitting. It has gotten better, but discussions about moderation here are never going to go away or be entirely resolved. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/325 "2018-06-05T20:43:43Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I explained why I didn’t (didn’t I?). I don’t want it to be a continuation of this nonsense. If nobody else will do it then maybe I will. No, you said that being a Pit thread, this will receive little moderation of ranting and _ad hominyms_ (despite this being, y’know, the pit). Moderation is much stricter in GD and you can have the civilized discussion you claim to want, which is not apparent from your own personal attacks in response to reasonable arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/326 "2018-06-05T20:44:18Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The answer to “too many rate-a-woman threads” is NOT an equal number of “rate-a-man threads”. That’s a very common male assumption that “equality” or “fairness” in topics means an equal number of the type of topics _men_ like, but gender-flipped. There was a PVP comic series from years ago where one character was getting pissed off at her boyfriend’s objectification of women–so to teach him a lesson, for Halloween she got him a sexy cowboy costume (or something similar), and got a bunch of women to objectify him all night, so he could see how unpleasant it was. He freakin LOVED it. The boyfriend’s takeaway from the comic was that his girlfriend really needed to lighten up, that a little sexual objectification isn’t so bad. But there’s a very slightly different takeaway: he needs to realize that his experience is different, because _a little objectification_ isn’t bad, but _constant unending objectification_ is a real goddamned different experience, and not one he’s gonna understand through a Halloween of assless chaps. This sort of shallow parity–“Counter hawt girl threads with hawt boy threads!” “A thread of FGM turning into a discussion of circumcision is just like a thread on false rape accusations turning into a discussion of rape accusations!” “Women used to have to cover their ankles, now men get fussed at for talking about being horny!”–is some seriously ahistorical bullshit. To understand why something might bother a lot of women when a gender-flipped version wouldn’t bother a dude, you might have to look at the overall cultural experience of being a woman vs. being a man in our society. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/327 "2018-06-05T20:47:41Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Or start a thread clearly labeled “Men - what are your preferences for ladyscaping NFSW”. Or yeah, keep them to yourself. NFSW=Not a Fucking Social Warrior? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/328 "2018-06-05T20:48:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Actually, this has been a surprisingly good discussion so far. What’s not surprising at all, is that you remain a fucking imbecile with a pathetic fixation on pit content. It actually has. The pit doesn’t preclude a decent discussion, it allows a discussion with a broader reach, and more colorful language at times. Plus, it’s sort of a day off for the mods. (But they are all busy trying to figure out who is the old man and the new kid on the block - in the ATMB) ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/329 "2018-06-05T20:50:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > There was a PVP comic series from years ago where one character was getting pissed off at her boyfriend’s objectification of women–so to teach him a lesson, for Halloween she got him a sexy cowboy costume (or something similar), and got a bunch of women to objectify him all night, so he could see how unpleasant it was. > > He freakin LOVED it. A better tactic would be to take him to a gay bar. And hope the idea that unwanted attention is unwanted attention gets through. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/330 "2018-06-05T20:50:33Z")
Culturally, you can look at a lot of different cultures that assume/require women to be completely responsible for the thoughts in the heads of the men around them. The conservative middle eastern versions of Islam come to mind, but there are plenty of others. I don’t buy that for a minute. The excuse that “men cannot help but think” is lazy and justifies their lack of control over their own minds and thoughts. Personal responsibility, bucko. No woman is responsible for the asshole who catcalls her and follows her down the block. No woman is responsible for the male twenty feet behind her who “cannot help but” stare at her ass and get impure thoughts. Those are entirely in that man’s head and entirely within his control. Any actions based on those thoughts are a CHOICE. Unfortunately, it is probably up to some of us men to mansplain it to them. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/331 "2018-06-05T20:53:19Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Educating the ignorant is not misogyny. Women of the world, embroider this upon a kerchief. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/332 "2018-06-05T20:53:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Actually, this has been a surprisingly good discussion so far. What’s not surprising at all, is that you remain a fucking imbecile with a pathetic fixation on pit content. > [@Lemur866](#): > > What’s wrong with you? > > It seems to me the only thing about this board you enjoy, the only thing that really lights you up, is your “You liberals sure are stupid” act. Don’t you ever get tired of that? Don’t you ever feel the desire to act like a normal human being? > > Thing is, this community, such as it is, means a lot to you. At least you spend a lot of time here. But to what end? What about it gives you so much enjoyment? Why can’t you just go comment on YouTube videos or something? > > You offer nothing positive or substantial here, it’s just Argument Clinic for you. You’re not changing minds, you’re not performing for the lurkers. The only one who cares is you. So what’s wrong with you? > [@MrDibble](#): > > Look, I know “triggering” is what \*you \*call it when you picture sweaty horse-on- **octopus** action, but the rest of us don’t have that particular paraphilia so, maybe, stop bringing it up everywhere, yeah? Dragging posters into his fetish was **Skald** ’s thing, get your own shtick Unlike the intellectually dishonest and chromosomally challenged posters I sandwiched you between, Lemur866, I enjoy reading and interacting with different point of views. What I don’t appreciate are hypocritical fools who feel perfectly entitled to take shots at other posters in this misanthropic pit and then get the vapors when people respond in kind. There are a lot of good and thoughtful posters on this forum that have changed my thinking on various subjects. Unfortunately, the cretins who can’t argue in good faith make fruitful conversation difficult. Treat me with respect and I reciprocate. Treat me poorly and I reciprocate. It’s not a difficult concept. Ask me a direct question without direct or veiled insults and you get an answer in kind. But I am under no obligation to be polite to people who are rude to me in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/333 "2018-06-05T20:53:59Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > A better tactic would be to take him to a gay bar. And hope the idea that unwanted attention is unwanted attention gets through. I read it forever ago. And even that doesn’t quite capture the same dynamic, I think: a straight white dude getting an evening of harmless unwanted attention is not an equivalent to what I understand most women experience. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/334 "2018-06-05T20:56:14Z")
A better ending to that would be to have the gf say “Good. Now wear that for a year.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/335 "2018-06-05T20:57:24Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Are there other example of boards that are as encompassing as this one, and has a majority of men, that are more progressive and female friendly? Giraffeboards? Or so I’m _told_. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/336 "2018-06-05T21:03:25Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > Funny, “Don’t be a jerk” - which I’d argue is a lesser sin than being an asshole - is literally a guiding principle here. FWIW, “don’t be a jerk” has a lot of gray to it as well. But this is even more dubious. Partially because it emerges from the comments of several posters that the standard they’re looking for is not a universal standard that’s shared by all but a special protective standard for women, in acknowledgment of their history and life experiences etc. But even more because of the following: 1) the proposed standard for defining offensiveness is based on “whatever we (not you) say it is based on our feelings”, and 2) the “we” in the above is a group of self-selected spokespeople, whose feelings are not necessarily representative of their entire gender. Which - again - is not to say their concerns are not legitimate. But it means that the “it’s just that simple” approach doesn’t cut here at all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/337 "2018-06-05T21:08:46Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > But I am under no obligation to be polite to people who are rude to me in the pit. And I am not under any obligation to give the least fuck what your obligations are, you slimy turd. Any “politeness” you muster\* is just a thin coating of clear lacquer on the steaming pile of contrarian maggoty horseshit that passes for your bigoted brain - it’s pretty obvious what’s underneath to anyone with eyes. Also, the lacquer’s cracking, so the stink’s a giveaway too. - I assume you do actually muster some - I can’t recall any off the bat. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/338 "2018-06-05T21:11:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > a straight white dude getting an evening of harmless unwanted attention is not an equivalent to what I understand most women experience. IME, women and men experience unwanted attention the same way a fish and a camel experience water. The camel can’t understand the ocean any more than the fish can understand the desert. Good luck bridging that gap. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/339 "2018-06-05T21:12:34Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Really? I don’t see any leaving. I see threats to leave if they can’t dictate terms to the whole board, I say go. I’d say that to any organized group that tried to employ tactics similar to the Heckler’s Veto in order to control what others post. > > This thread belies the notion that not wanting to be surprised by misleading titles and gratuitous porn was the issue. The thread location itself is bait. Why do you think this was posted here and not ATMB? The pit is a better target to stir up drama. Folks are just saying something like “hey, maybe a bunch of these types of posts are a big turnoff for a lot of potential contributors, and maybe y’all would like to consider that next time you post”. No advocacy of censorship, or control, or threats, or anything but trying to make the board better. You could say “I’ll consider that when I post, because I like y’all and want y’all to keep contributing”, or you could accuse them of being disingenuous. Which response do you think would “stir up” more drama? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/340 "2018-06-05T21:13:03Z")
MrDibble. You’re allowing yourself to be trolled. He is deliberately making his points inflammatory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=18)