# Male Centrism at the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437 "2018-06-05T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/501 "2018-06-06T18:04:25Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I know… but it’s impossible for me to leave patently false assertions be, and I always remain hopeful anyone can learn. It’s an occupational hazard. Curious question: are you open to “learning” on this issue? Or are the only two conceivable options that octopus comes around to your point of view or that he’s remains wrong. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/502 "2018-06-06T18:10:05Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Curious question: are you open to “learning” on this issue? Or are the only two conceivable options that octopus comes around to your point of view or that he’s remains wrong. My assertion is that actions by some on this board have lead to feeling by many women that it is not a hospitable place to them. That is what many different people are saying. I’m not sure what the counterargument is other than “you’re too sensitive and wrong”? No one is asking for new rules, censorship, a male-only forum, or that it is being done dileberately. The strategy to deal with this is open for discussion and is trying to be discussed. ETA: I’ll add that my correction to him was a factual one. He claimed the only solution on the table was more female-centric treads. I was pointing out that it wasn’t a solution to the problem. So, I’m not sure what your comment has to do with that. So what is that I need to learn from **octopus**? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/503 "2018-06-06T18:10:36Z")
That is indeed a curious question. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/504 "2018-06-06T18:26:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That is indeed a curious question. I, for one, look forward to **F-P** teaching **ITD** how she and other women should perceive sexism on the board. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/505 "2018-06-06T18:29:41Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I, for one, look forward to **F-P** teaching **ITD** how she and other women should perceive sexism on the board. I await such education myself. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/506 "2018-06-06T18:30:42Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Keep it up, people. Octopus is clearly open to learning and I can tell you’re starting to get through to him. :rolleyes: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/507 "2018-06-06T18:39:46Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I, for one, look forward to **F-P** teaching **ITD** how she and other women should perceive sexism on the board. > [@raventhief](#): > > I await such education myself. I have worked so long in a male-dominated field that I could probably do a training seminar on “How men explain sexism to women”. That would be meta. Too many guys think that this is the first time women have dealt with it, or this situation doesn’t count because reasons, or if only we just understood better we’d completely get it. This is sadly routine to many of us. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/508 "2018-06-06T18:46:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m not sure that covers all of it. As octopus correctly points out, sex is a natural, biological function. So is defecation. If MPSIMS had lots of posters who regularly posted about bowel issues–several threads on the front page about which tissues worked best for wiping, how to handle unexpected bathroom emergencies, which foods led to the most solid stool, funny stories about sharting, whether enemas worked, describe your latest enema, which enema brands are best, and so on and so on–I gotta say, after awhile I’d get tired of it. I mean, sure, it’s a natural function, but the details of other folks’ poop doesn’t really do a lot for me, and every time I see mention of other folks’ poop it’s a tiny little blecch for me. > > We do have bowel threads. But not anywhere near the quantity that we have threads about the hawtness of wimmin. And it sounds to me like it’s the quantity, not any individual thread, that’s irking folks. > > If we had a dozen new active threads a day about bowel issues, I’d think that the board needed less conversation about bowel issues. I wouldn’t think that problem would be just simply solved by my starting more threads. > > Of course it’s not a perfect analogy–but if you criticize it, I hope you’ll focus on criticizing relevant aspects, not irrelevant aspects. Poop! Anywas, I did look at the Monica Vs. Phoebe debate to see if people would fault Monica for being uptight, or Phoebe who probably takes lots of herbal substances, and believed in past lives. It seems harmless, but I kinda understand where the gals are coming from. I’m going to reread the thread to formulate my feelings. If men were the subject of these kinds of threads, I doubt there would be a problem, but you wouldn’t see that because they’re kind of silly questions. Maybe fun to think about. I don’t know, maybe that it’s all happening at once. I’m ignorant to the concern though. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/509 "2018-06-06T18:51:25Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > My assertion is that actions by some on this board have lead to feeling by many women that it is not a hospitable place to them. That is what many different people are saying. I’m not sure what the counterargument is other than “you’re too sensitive and wrong”? One argument might be to create more threads where women feel welcome. That seems to be what **octopus** suggested. > [@](#): > > ETA: I’ll add that my correction to him was a factual one. He claimed the only solution on the table was more female-centric treads. I was pointing out that it wasn’t a solution to the problem. So, I’m not sure what your comment has to do with that. That wasn’t a factual correction. He did not say it was the only solution, and it is a matter of opinion whether it is a solution or not. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/510 "2018-06-06T18:54:17Z")
Look what I found: [Can women blow smoke out of their cooter?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856256) I think I’m going to help with a detailed answer about kegels. I’m not sure that addresses the question of how the smoke gets into the “cooter”. I will also offer my opinion on the movie. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/511 "2018-06-06T19:02:54Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Look what I found: [Can women blow smoke out of their cooter?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856256) > > I think I’m going to help with a detailed answer about kegels. I’m not sure that addresses the question of how the smoke gets into the “cooter”. I will also offer my opinion on the movie. Speaking of turtles… > **[River cooter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_cooter)** > > The river cooter (Pseudemys concinna) is a species of freshwater turtle in the family Emydidae. The species is native to the central and eastern United States, but has been introduced into parts of California, Washington, and British Columbia. > P. concinna is found from Virginia south to central Georgia, west to eastern Texas, Oklahoma, and north to southern Indiana. > P. concinna is usually found in rivers with moderate current, as well as lakes and tidal marshes. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/512 "2018-06-06T19:10:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > One argument might be to create more threads where women feel welcome. That seems to be what **octopus** suggested.That wasn’t a factual correction. He did not say it was the only solution, and it is a matter of opinion whether it is a solution or not. > > Regards, > Shodan Again, no. If I’m at a bar and someone is spouting racist garbage, getting together to talk about the value of diversity in another corner will not make it more welcoming. It seemed he was asserting that parity of threads was the issue- it was that I was trying to correct. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/513 "2018-06-06T19:11:49Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Look what I found: [Can women blow smoke out of their cooter?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856256) That thread is a great example of the problem here, and also the challenge in changing it. It doesn’t run afoul of any rules as far as I can tell, so reporting it isn’t an option. I’d call ol’ lecherous **acey** out for his unnecessary comment on the shapeliness of the actress’s boobs, but that would probably be threadshitting. Ignore it, and the cycle repeats, as silence is taken as tacit approval. So what to do? ETA: On re-reading this, it came out sounding like I’m throwing my hands in the air, which wasn’t my intention. There are lots of things we can do to change the environment here. I’m wondering specifically how to handle crap like the “cooter” post. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/514 "2018-06-06T19:14:03Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Look what I found: [Can women blow smoke out of their cooter?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856256) > > I think I’m going to help with a detailed answer about kegels. I’m not sure that addresses the question of how the smoke gets into the “cooter”. I will also offer my opinion on the movie. This reminds me of when I was a sexuality counselor in college- we gave advice about birth control, did peer counseling about sexual issues etc. When guys would call the hotline to get us to describe female orgasms, we had a printout of the most clinical description to read over the phone. Not exactly the titliating responses they hoped for. Good times. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/515 "2018-06-06T19:15:15Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > When guys would call the hotline to get us to describe female orgasms, we had a printout of the most clinical description to read over the phone. This was a common enough occurrence that you had a printout for it? This may be the saddest thing I’ve ever read. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/516 "2018-06-06T19:16:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This was a common enough occurrence that you had a printout for it? > > This may be the saddest thing I’ve ever read. Thank you for picking up on that. And yes. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/517 "2018-06-06T19:17:34Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > My assertion is that actions by some on this board have lead to feeling by many women that it is not a hospitable place to them. That is what many different people are saying. I’m not sure what the counterargument is other than “you’re too sensitive and wrong”? > > No one is asking for new rules, censorship, a male-only forum, or that it is being done dileberately. The strategy to deal with this is open for discussion and is trying to be discussed. > > ETA: I’ll add that my correction to him was a factual one. He claimed the only solution on the table was more female-centric treads. I was pointing out that it wasn’t a solution to the problem. So, I’m not sure what your comment has to do with that. > > So what is that I need to learn from **octopus**? It’s not at all clear to me that the notion that “_actions by some on this board have lead to feeling by many women that it is not a hospitable place to them_” is a point of disagreement between you and octopus. Perhaps he can chime in, but I don’t recall him disagreeing with that. Until and unless that’s confirmed, then citing that statement as your own assertion and demanding the octopus “counterargument” to that statement seems misplaced. Octopus has posted quite a few times to this thread, and for the most part this seemed to involve disagreements with many other posters. My question was: to the extent that you do disagree with octopus - meaning an actual position espoused by octopus in this thread and not a strawman position assigned to him by others - are you listening to that position with an open mind and exhibiting the same willingness to “learn” that you espouse for octopus? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/518 "2018-06-06T19:22:21Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s not at all clear to me that the notion that “_actions by some on this board have lead to feeling by many women that it is not a hospitable place to them_” is a point of disagreement between you and octopus. Perhaps he can chime in, but I don’t recall him disagreeing with that. Until and unless that’s confirmed, then citing that statement as your own assertion and demanding the octopus “counterargument” to that statement seems misplaced. > > Octopus has posted quite a few times to this thread, and for the most part this seemed to involve disagreements with many other posters. My question was: to the extent that you do disagree with octopus - meaning an actual position espoused by octopus in this thread and not a strawman position assigned to him by others - are you listening to that position with an open mind and exhibiting the same willingness to “learn” that you espouse for octopus? I don’t recall your earlier posts so it may be misplaced but it seems quite possible that you’re Just Askin’ Questions. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/519 "2018-06-06T19:22:58Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > This reminds me of when I was a sexuality counselor in college- we gave advice about birth control, did peer counseling about sexual issues etc. When guys would call the hotline to get us to describe female orgasms, we had a printout of the most clinical description to read over the phone. Not exactly the titliating responses they hoped for. > > Good times. When I worked on a sexual assault crisis line, one of the most frequent callers was someone who liked to call in and describe an assault in progress - in detail - while it was “happening” - pant, pant. Everyone was warned, and we all recognized his voice very quickly. It got to the point where he recognized mine too. He’d call, I’d say “Hello, you’ve reached the Crisis Line” and he’d say “oh, it’s you”. Bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/520 "2018-06-06T19:24:30Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > What’s more telling is the lack of substantial participation from the mods. Oh, an off hand remark or two, tangential at best. But nothing that really adds to the conversation. In my opinion. > > The silence is deafening. Would it hurt to say, ‘Please know you’ve raised a point that has the mod loop talking.’ But nope, nada. > > Maybe they think the women can’t hear their silence? I think it’s loud and clear myself. **elbows** , please do look at the ATMB thread. You could start on the last page and read backward so you don’t have to read the whole thing. Look for **Bone** ’s posts. The mods were supportive of listening to us. It will take some time, but when you see something that squicks you and makes you head for the back button, report it instead so they can start to get a feel for what’s going on. They can’t fix what they don’t know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=27)