# Male Centrism at the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437 "2018-06-05T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/521 "2018-06-06T19:26:48Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > When I worked on a sexual assault crisis line, one of the most frequent callers was someone who liked to call in and describe an assault in progress - in detail - while it was “happening” - pant, pant. Everyone was warned, and we all recognized his voice very quickly. It got to the point where he recognized mine too. He’d call, I’d say “Hello, you’ve reached the Crisis Line” and he’d say “oh, it’s you”. Bastard. Sounds about right. The rest of you would be shocked by what those of us who’ve dealt with this crap know. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/522 "2018-06-06T19:26:55Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I, for one, look forward to **F-P** teaching **ITD** how she and other women should perceive sexism on the board. It can go with BigTard’s earlier introductory post about what women should and should concern themselves with. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/523 "2018-06-06T19:27:28Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Again, no. If I’m at a bar and someone is spouting racist garbage, getting together to talk about the value of diversity in another corner will not make it more welcoming. It seemed he was asserting that parity of threads was the issue- it was that I was trying to correct. I know that this is your opinion. Your mistake was to label it as factual. And also to make the non-factual claim that **octopus** said it was the only solution. You are not making factual corrections. You made one false statement, and an expression of an opinion without anything to back it up. First off, no one is spouting anything equivalent to racist garbage. Second, you go into a bar, and there are three conversations going on. One you actively dislike, and two are uninteresting. Is the only possible solution to shut down the conversation you dislike? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/524 "2018-06-06T19:28:40Z")
It never gets old. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/525 "2018-06-06T19:29:05Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I welcome everyone to the discussion, as long as it’s a discussion. When it turns into a pissing match, then I start a separate Pit thread. 🙂 > > In all seriousness, this is about inclusiveness, so not involving everyone would be pointless. I think many people of various genders have made good contributions to the discussion. Even just saying “I support this” or “I never thought about this, but I will start to” is important, because bringing the issue to the forefront is a real step forward. Even those people who don’t see the issue the same way I do are welcome. We’re still having the conversation and that’s a critical first step. > > What is counter-productive is getting lost in exchanges about censorship, or whether this is an attack on a particular poster (it’s not). > > Yes, please, everyone should discuss. This isn’t for venting. This is for fostering understanding and if we’re lucky, working towards more inclusiveness. Then this thread should have been in Great Debates instead of the forum created for venting and personal attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/526 "2018-06-06T19:32:04Z")
I don’t know if this will help or not, but I was thinking about the rating women type threads, and I think I can help guys understand better why women don’t see them as harmless fun. For example, the Ginger versus Mary Ann thread - if it was more accurately named, “Who would you rather stick your penis in, Ginger or Mary Ann?” maybe then guys would see why women find that kind of thing a bit icky. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/527 "2018-06-06T19:33:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I know that this is your opinion. Your mistake was to label it as factual. And also to make the non-factual claim that **octopus** said it was the only solution. This is a common third-grade mistake. “Ice cream is delicious” is an opinion. “Ice cream is made from cream, sugar, and flavorings” is a fact. “I like ice cream”: fact, or opinion? It looks like the first statement, so it could be a matter of opinion. But if you tell me, “No you don’t, you only think you like ice cream,” you’re wrong as hell. It’s a factual statement. What if you say, “I hate ice cream, and it’s a problem when folks try to serve it to me” and I say, “The solution to that problem is that you should eat my homemade kale-crunch ice cream,” and you say, “Factually, no, that won’t solve the problem?” You’re right: I don’t get to tell you how to solve a problem, **when the problem is about your personal responses**. If you tell me that that won’t solve the problem, it’s a fact that it won’t, in the same way that telling me your reaction to certain foods is a fact. ITD pointed out that the board is not welcoming to some women. That statement is factual. When she further points out that a proposed solution won’t change that, that’s also a factual statement. The only grounds on which someone can dispute her is to claim they know the brains of the folks who feel unwelcomed better than they know their own brains. Ain’t a matter of opinions at all. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/528 "2018-06-06T19:34:03Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Then this thread should have been in Great Debates instead of the forum created for venting and personal attacks. No. The inevitable specific examples basically require this to be in the Pit. It’s perfectly possible to have a real discussion here. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/529 "2018-06-06T19:35:13Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It never gets old. “You’re thinking wrong, little lady. Let me explain it to you.” ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/530 "2018-06-06T19:37:33Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No. The inevitable specific examples basically require this to be in the Pit. It’s perfectly possible to have a real discussion here. Along with trolling and insults. There is no reason why this can’t be in GD. It would also include a far larger percentage of the board. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/531 "2018-06-06T19:40:05Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Along with trolling and insults. There is no reason why this can’t be in GD. Yes, there is. The reason I put in the post you fucking quoted, moron. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/532 "2018-06-06T19:44:45Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Look what I found: [Can women blow smoke out of their cooter?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856256) > > I think I’m going to help with a detailed answer about kegels. I’m not sure that addresses the question of how the smoke gets into the “cooter”. I will also offer my opinion on the movie. Your response in that thread was admirable **Sunny D**. It’s non-threatening, yet points out the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/533 "2018-06-06T19:49:10Z")
Ah, and here we have BigT explaining things to me… > [@BigT](#): > > No. I just read his posts (even though I have **octopus** on ignore), and he’s getting it fine. He even was conceding an issue in his penultimate post, and was actually somewhat understanding what you were saying, and maybe even coming around to your way of thinking, because of something you brought up. That actually shocked me. I rarely see anyone pull that off! Octopus raised valid points about everyone… except himself. Where he did not deny that he was shouting down others. That’s why I think he doesn’t get it - I see no signs of self-reflection there. As usual, it’s everyone else behaving badly and he’s an angel. > [@](#): > > When you’re even accusing the posters who are on your side of being horrible sexist assholes, only following their dicks, then it’s probably time to take a step back. Are you going to pat me on the head now and tell me now to worry my pretty little self about it? Do you not realize that you sound condescending? You don’t get it because you don’t experience it and you don’t see it, so as far as you’re concerned it doesn’t exist. Oh, well… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/534 "2018-06-06T19:49:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > ITD pointed out that the board is not welcoming to some women. That statement is factual. Yes, it is. > [@](#): > > When she further points out that a proposed solution won’t change that, that’s also a factual statement. No, it’s not. It’s an opinion. It would only be a fact if she were referring only to her reaction. > [@](#): > > The only grounds on which someone can dispute her is to claim they know the brains of the folks who feel unwelcomed better than they know their own brains. It can also be disputed by pointing out that her claim is based on the idea that she knows the brains of all the unwelcomed, plus all those who might join in the future, and all those who don’t feel unwelcomed. So yes, it is an opinion. It might be right or wrong, but it is an opinion. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/535 "2018-06-06T19:50:10Z")
_Jesus Christ is that guy trying hard to be ‘provocative’ lately. I mean Acey._ [What Male Centrum may look like.](http://www.unity.com.sg/health_info/self_care_health_card/images/centrum_for_men.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/536 "2018-06-06T19:52:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s an opinion. It would only be a fact if she were referring only to her reaction. Nope. It’s a factual statement. It may be an incorrect factual statement, but the way to show that would be to show actual folks who’ve felt unwelcomed who find this proposal satisfactory. A predictive factual statement is not an opinion. Edit: I realize this is going into the weeds, so I won’t pursue it any further. If you’d like to study more about the difference between fact and opinion, I can direct you to some pretty good resources from [teacherspayteachers.com](http://teacherspayteachers.com). ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/537 "2018-06-06T20:01:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Nope. It’s a factual statement. It may be an incorrect factual statement, but the way to show that would be to show actual folks who’ve felt unwelcomed who find this proposal satisfactory. A predictive factual statement is not an opinion. I admit to not reading and recalling every single post in this thread. So, can someone point me to the posts by women here who assert: 1. this board makes them feel unwelcome; and 2. that it’s due to there not being enough chick-threads to counteract the creepy threads; or 3. responded that idea is a good solution. I don’t recall that ever occurring, so the idea that it’s been put forth as a reasonable solution is a false one. I do not need perfect knowledge of all the posters, just an accurate restating of those who spoke up in this thread. However, if it was brought up or accepted as a good idea, I’m happy to stand corrected. ETA: I’m with LHOD on this- it’s a nitpicky distraction that simply doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/538 "2018-06-06T20:03:26Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Chimera, how does it feel…_[snipped because I don’t feel like helping Morgenstern shit on someone]_ > [@Morgenstern](#): > > He has me on ignore. I could pit the creation, but he’s too coward to see it. So I’ll just have to point about his mental failings and hope someone quotes it. Thank you for that. Holy shit - you’re attempting a _second party_ insult? There’s no way you can deny living under a bridge now. I’m taking a wild guess and speculating that Chimera put you on ignore not through cowardice but rather a combination of mental maturity and nausea. If anyone wants an example of how someone can make a forum hostile towards someone else that’s it right there. Maybe part of the solution is calling out people who are being dicks regardless of whether the dickishness involves gender, race, religion, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/539 "2018-06-06T20:05:04Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Yes, there is. The reason I put in the post you fucking quoted, moron. Ahhh…troglodytes like you who can’t make a clear and civil argument need the safety of The Pit. Got it. And your original argument is incorrect. You can quote objectionable posts in GD without insulting the poster. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/540 "2018-06-06T20:05:40Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > A gender poll isn’t remotely dragging dirty laundry around, ffs, and it doesn’t remotely invite those types of jokes. One would think so but look what’s in the last gender poll thread: > [@Are you a male or a female?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-male-or-a-female/790451/23): > > That’s enough to go around. We’ll just need a schedule and a little member cooperation. > We can make this work. > [@Are you a male or a female?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-male-or-a-female/790451/24): > > Alright. I’ll make do with just two. Which prompted [this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=830387). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=28)