# Male Centrism at the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437 "2018-06-05T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/541 "2018-06-06T20:09:28Z")
> [@Jane\_Elliot](#): > > I feel like this has devolved into two different threads. One is talking about how the board culture can be better and more inclusive, and the other is a bunch of dudes sniping at each other and overshadowing the OP. Maybe the sniping dudes can take it to their own thread? Actually, it’s not that unusual an example of a thread about women’s issues being hijacked by a bunch of immature wankers. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Question for females: When males step into threads like this to defend and/or support what you are saying, does it help the cause because of the visual support, or does it hurt the cause because it just ends up as more males overall drowning out _your_ voices? Depends. When a man calls out another man for being an asshole/dick/sexist/whatever it often counts more because it’s one man to another and thus harder for a certain type of man to ignore (said sort also frequently then attempts to attack the manhood of the other guy). That’s a positive. So are posts where men say they’re thinking about the issue, examining their own behavior, or re-thinking things. Men “mansplaining” things, trying to one-up each other, or using a thread about women’s issues to shit on another man who’s wife left him… so totally NOT cool. Those posts are not helpful. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > The point isn’t that there is lopsided male-centric content. It’s the idea that certain content, often promoted by males, makes the place uninviting to women. This is not a separate but equal sitatuation, but that the tone of the board is unwelcoming. We don’t need more “chick threads”. We need fewer threads/comments that make it unpleasant. We also need fewer of the “chick threads” that ARE made being hijacked by men. > [@](#): > > For example, the solution to the problems of guys barging in with boob jokes in women’s health threads was not more threads about women’s issues, but for those guys to knock it off. Exactly. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Too many guys think that this is the first time women have dealt with it, or this situation doesn’t count because reasons, or if only we just understood better we’d completely get it. This is sadly routine to many of us. ^ word. > [@Shodan](#): > > One argument might be to create more threads where women feel welcome. Another argument is for a certain type of person to stop barging into threads already in progress and turning them into places where women feel unwelcome. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/542 "2018-06-06T20:10:41Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m taking a wild guess and speculating that Chimera put you on ignore not through cowardice but rather a combination of mental maturity and nausea. If anyone wants an example of how someone can make a forum hostile towards someone else that’s it right there. > > Maybe part of the solution is calling out people who are being dicks regardless of whether the dickishness involves gender, race, religion, or whatever. Thank you. I have 22 people on my ignore list right now, after cleaning it up earlier this week. Adding Morgo the Troll, removing two people who have been banned and two other people I decided were being less jerkish lately. Deciding to put people on ignore isn’t cowardice or weakness, it is simply deciding who you want to allow into your world. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/543 "2018-06-06T20:14:09Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > **elbows** , please do look at the ATMB thread. You could start on the last page and read backward so you don’t have to read the whole thing. Look for **Bone** ’s posts. The mods were supportive of listening to us. It will take some time, but when you see something that squicks you and makes you head for the back button, report it instead so they can start to get a feel for what’s going on. They can’t fix what they don’t know. Well, I’m glad to learn that’s the case. But are all the posters in this thread supposed to just somehow magically know about that conversation? That seems a odd position. My remarks were in regards to _this_ thread. I’m not seeing how any conversation there precludes a mod from participating meaningfully here. If it’s an important conversation we’re having, and it seems to be, why is it too much to expect a little participation from them here too? Why is it on other posters to defend them and point others to the other thread? As in, we said something, once, about that, somewhere else, so we’re covered? Is it really too onerous to expect they participate in two threads? If so, then that says something too, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/544 "2018-06-06T20:22:12Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Ahhh…troglodytes like you who can’t make a clear and civil argument need the safety of The Pit. Got it. And your original argument is incorrect. You can quote objectionable posts in GD without insulting the poster. I made a clear point which your foggy little brain can’t see because it was adjacent to an insult. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/545 "2018-06-06T20:22:40Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Along with trolling and insults. There is no reason why this can’t be in GD. It would also include a far larger percentage of the board. The “larger percentage” of the board who feel they’re above the Pit can go fuck a cactus. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/546 "2018-06-06T20:22:41Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I have 22 people on my ignore list right now, after cleaning it up earlier this week. Adding Morgo the Troll, removing two people who have been banned and two other people I decided were being less jerkish lately. How would you know they were being less jerkish if you were ignoring them? You may not know that the poster you’re ignoring doesn’t get notified of it, and almost certainly doesn’t give a shit anyway even if they know who you are. This isn’t the junior high school lunchroom. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/547 "2018-06-06T20:24:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Nope. It’s a factual statement. It may be an incorrect factual statement, but the way to show that would be to show actual folks who’ve felt unwelcomed who find this proposal satisfactory. A predictive factual statement is not an opinion. Not quite - a prediction is neither true nor false - it’s unproven. As the Simpsons’ quote didn’t say, predictions are just opinions and opinions can be wrong. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/548 "2018-06-06T20:25:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is a common third-grade mistake. > > “Ice cream is delicious” is an opinion. > “Ice cream is made from cream, sugar, and flavorings” is a fact. > “I like ice cream”: fact, or opinion? > > It looks like the first statement, so it could be a matter of opinion. But if you tell me, “No you don’t, you only think you like ice cream,” you’re wrong as hell. It’s a factual statement. > > What if you say, “I hate ice cream, and it’s a problem when folks try to serve it to me” and I say, “The solution to that problem is that you should eat my homemade kale-crunch ice cream,” and you say, “Factually, no, that won’t solve the problem?” > > You’re right: I don’t get to tell you how to solve a problem, **when the problem is about your personal responses**. If you tell me that that won’t solve the problem, it’s a fact that it won’t, in the same way that telling me your reaction to certain foods is a fact. > > ITD pointed out that the board is not welcoming to some women. That statement is factual. When she further points out that a proposed solution won’t change that, that’s also a factual statement. The only grounds on which someone can dispute her is to claim they know the brains of the folks who feel unwelcomed better than they know their own brains. > > Ain’t a matter of opinions at all. Problem with this logic is - beyond that women are not monolithic and different women may feel differently about the same things - that there have been various different examples cited as things which make women uncomfortable. What applies (as a solution) to one may not apply to the other. In addition, the entitlement in one case may extend beyond that of another. IDT cited the example of “_guys barging in with boob jokes in women’s health threads_” but that’s something which has been dealt with years ago and is not relevant here. Saying “create more female-centric threads” would not be a counter to that specific example. But the OP said “_Everyone enjoys a poll, right? Except when there are so many, so often, asking which women is “better” - then it gets old_” (emphasis added), and it was in response to that specific issue that someone (i.e. Chronos, in post #7) raised the possibility of having more female-centric content. If - as the OP herself suggested - the issue was “so many, so often”, then that seemed to suggest the possibility that more balance might be helpful for that specific issue. Or not (more below on this). Meanwhile the OP also objected to too many threads about false rape accusations. No one can tell the OP that she doesn’t object to too many threads about false rape accusations. But there is serious basis for telling the OP that to the extent that that type of thing - people expressing points of view that she disagrees with - is her problem, then she needs to just deal with it. Even assuming there’s room for disagreement with some or even all of the above, the point is that none of this involved telling any women what they feel or should feel. There’s room for disagreement about various aspects of these issues which don’t involve telling women what they feel, and it’s wrong to suggest - or pretend - that all disagreement is of this nature. (Especially since ISTM that none of it is.) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/549 "2018-06-06T20:28:13Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > One would think so but look what’s in the last gender poll thread: > Which prompted [this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=830387). One of the contentions in this thread is that the place is becoming less attractive to female netizens. DSeid wanted to see what the actual gender breakdown was, so started a poll. Are you agreeing that’s dragging out the dirty laundry into IMHO? Or do you doubt DSeid’s motives and think he did it for the sexy jokes? Because one of those is what you are arguing, whether you realize it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/550 "2018-06-06T20:29:02Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Another argument is for a certain type of person to stop barging into threads already in progress and turning them into places where women feel unwelcome. No, that can’t possibly work. It’s a fact! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/551 "2018-06-06T20:29:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > \*\*How would you know they were being less jerkish if you were ignoring them? > \*\* > You may not know that the poster you’re ignoring doesn’t get notified of it, and almost certainly doesn’t give a shit anyway even if they know who you are. This isn’t the junior high school lunchroom. Responding to what I bolded. I sometimes look at a post to see if that’s the case. Putting someone on ignore hides their posts, but you can still see that they posted. At least it facilitates scrolling. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/552 "2018-06-06T20:29:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How would you know they were being less jerkish if you were ignoring them? Two ways: First, while putting a poster on ignore blocks their posts, it does not blocks posts were some other poster quotes the person on ignore (indeed, Morgenstern likes to exploit that loophole, as he admitted upthread, to continue to jab at people who have him on ignore). Second, while the posts from a person on ignore are blocked there is still an indication that they posted and you have the option to uncover that one post without taking them off ignore. I have only one person on my ignore list at present but I do occasionally read that person’s posts because once in a while they say something that isn’t dickish and actually contributes to a conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/553 "2018-06-06T20:30:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You may not know that Spend less time attempting to explain the Internet to a guy who has been working with computers since before you were born, Sonny Jim. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/554 "2018-06-06T20:33:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The “larger percentage” of the board who feel they’re above the Pit can go fuck a cactus. Ah, we want these boards to be so welcoming don’t we? The esteemed Mr. Dribble once again can’t see the mile wide irony in his own statement. Again, it’s no surprise the thread was started in the Pit is it? It’s not a thread for discussion, it’s a thread for bullying. Why not start a thread in IMHO and keep it civil? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/555 "2018-06-06T20:34:13Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Along with trolling and insults. There is no reason why this can’t be in GD. It would also include a far larger percentage of the board. (looking around) No, you have most of us. > [@elbows](#): > > Maybe they think the women can’t he3ar their silence? I think it’s loud and clear myself. It’s time folks remind them. See my clue-by-four. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > So what is that I need to learn from **octopus**? As I said to him in another thread, “I thought we got rid of you.” Christianity, and I assume other faiths, says that everyone should find his own way to redemption. We have pointed the way, but he has ignored it. I’m a lousy Christian. Screw him. > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > When I worked on a sexual assault crisis line, one of the most frequent callers was someone who liked to call in and describe an assault in progress - in detail - while it was “happening” - pant, pant. Everyone was warned, and we all recognized his voice very quickly. It got to the point where he recognized mine too. He’d call, I’d say “Hello, you’ve reached the Crisis Line” and he’d say “oh, it’s you”. Bastard. Bringing in my wife, who tried to enlighten me, she worked for MegaloMart customer service. A guy called in, saying he wanted to buy a bra for his wife. “Okay, what size does she wear?” “I dunno, what size do you wear?” She nearly got fired for hanging up on him. I try to see that as an idea of what women deal with everyday. > [@MrDibble](#): > > TL;DR:\*\* “Toxic” is not the only flavour masculinity comes in.\*\* This. My dear wife, dead these 364 days, was a semi-pro historian, botanist, zoologist, chemist, paleontologist, etc-ist. She would’ve found the threads mentioned above about tanks vs T-Rex nonsensical because an M-2 Light Tank, loaded with high explosive shells, would make short work of a pack of Tyranosaurs. Fully traversing 37mm cannon? T-Rex burger. And yet, she could be the flower of femininity, if it suited her. I tried to get her to join, but she was too busy arguing the fine points of fossilized snot that is all we have of Pre-Cambrian life. And horses she found on a feed lot. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/556 "2018-06-06T20:37:42Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Men “mansplaining” things […] so totally NOT cool. Those posts are not helpful. The problem with “mansplaining” is that it’s frequently used synonymously with “having a different opinion”. You can see an example a few posts back. Shodan had an exchange with IDT over a couple of things that he seems perfectly entitled to have an opinion about. Those being 1) whether in fact octopus had said something was the “only” solution, and 2) whether it’s reasonable to ask other people to stop talking about something because you’re uncomfortable with the existence of that conversation. No reason he can’t have an opinion just as anyone else. But his expression of that opinion got the mansplaining eye-roll from two posters. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/557 "2018-06-06T20:44:53Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I made a clear point which your foggy little brain can’t see because it was adjacent to an insult. The fact that a GD thread would pull in a much wider number of Dopers isn’t important? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/558 "2018-06-06T20:47:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The problem with “mansplaining” is that it’s frequently used synonymously with “having a different opinion”. > > You can see an example a few posts back. Shodan had an exchange with IDT over a couple of things that he seems perfectly entitled to have an opinion about. Those being 1) whether in fact octopus had said something was the “only” solution, and 2) whether it’s reasonable to ask other people to stop talking about something because you’re uncomfortable with the existence of that conversation. No reason he can’t have an opinion just as anyone else. But his expression of that opinion got the mansplaining eye-roll from two posters. Perhaps I missed it, but I don’t recall anyone using the phrase “mansplaining” in response to Shodan’s exchange with ITD. Perhaps you are inferring that from some other phrases they used? Could you explain exactly where you think his comments were discounted as such? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/559 "2018-06-06T20:48:06Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > I’d like to see a thread like this because I don’t understand what you mean, and I want to. While I know what classism is, I haven’t recognized it here and that bothers me. We used to have more of it in the days when ideologies of naive libertarianism were more rampant on the boards. A whole lot of market fundamentalism and wealth idolatry, accompanied by contemptuous dismissals of blue-collar workers, union activists, unemployed, etc., as “losers” and so on. I think the Great Recession may have played a role in increasing the awareness of economic hardship and class issues on the SDMB as elsewhere. But of course, there’s still quite a ways to go. And with classism as with sexism and racism, incremental progress is always accompanied by a number of people throwing indignant hissy fits because someone is criticizing, however gently, aspects of their behavior that they hadn’t previously thought of as open to (valid) criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/560 "2018-06-06T20:50:41Z")
And here a poster opens a tiny window on what it’s like when the boot is on the other foot and [a serious question about men’s sexual health is met with with a woman sniggering and telling a guffawing anecdote about humiliating a guy at work because limp dicks lol.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21003260&postcount=7) I’m trying to imagine what it would be like for men if the board culture meant that smirks and jeers and dumb jokes were the default response to most threads we participated in, and we got told that we were being too sensitive if we took offense. It would be pretty poisonous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=29)