# Male Centrism at the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437 "2018-06-05T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/781 "2018-06-09T04:23:29Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I have a couple of problems with this view of men, but I don’t want to jump on what may only be an unintentional turn of phrase. My problems stem from judging a man based on how he looks – that a (presumably) big burly blue-collar guy\* is more manly than a quiet non-burly guy who wears a tie and works at a desk, and that a big burly blue-collar guy should not be expected to have any sensitivity about sexual harassment because of the way he looks. > > My other problem is to ask what the hell “manly” means anyway? If you didn’t really mean it (referencing your later remark that “it doesn’t make you less of a man”) then why did you choose that word? > > I am truly not attempting any tu quoque “you do it too” zinger here. I could say that it goes both ways, but what I really want to say is that it goes all ways, and we all have learning to do when it comes to choosing neutral words whenever we can. > > \*I know you didn’t use the words “big burly blue-collar guy” but that is the image I got from your post. Feel free to substitute a more accurate description, it doesn’t change my point. I get it. I tried to think words he would use to describe himself. He’s not a great wordsmith. Redneck, southern, hunter, jack of all trades, hard-living, hard-playing guys guy. Those are my words. I wanted to show the difference between that guy and a guy who could _learn_how to be sensitive enough to teach young women and men the dos and don’ts in the workplace. A man who could hug a young lady after class who felt at ease enough to tearfully tell of her bad experience with a supervisor to him. It was hard for him to learn how to react to these confessionals. But, learn he did. And he was good at it. So you’re not wrong, I should’ve worded it better. Big burly blue collar guy is an apt description of him. I know the use of neutral terms is how its done now. But we are discussing the differences in the sexes and how things affect us. Whatever gender we are. I wanted to show that change is possible. Even for that old fashioned big burly guy. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/782 "2018-06-09T04:47:34Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I get it. I tried to think words he would use to describe himself. He’s not a great wordsmith. I was about to comment negatively about this until I remembered it’s part of my core moral code that it’s ok to throw your spouse under the bus to get out of an awkward social situation. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/783 "2018-06-09T05:07:45Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I get it. I tried to think words he would use to describe himself. He’s not a great wordsmith. Redneck, southern, hunter, jack of all trades, hard-living, hard-playing guys guy. Those are my words. I wanted to show the difference between that guy and a guy who could _learn_how to be sensitive enough to teach young women and men the dos and don’ts in the workplace. A man who could hug a young lady after class who felt at ease enough to tearfully tell of her bad experience with a supervisor to him. It was hard for him to learn how to react to these confessionals. But, learn he did. And he was good at it. So you’re not wrong, I should’ve worded it better. Big burly blue collar guy is an apt description of him. > I know the use of neutral terms is how its done now. But we are discussing the differences in the sexes and how things affect us. Whatever gender we are. I wanted to show that change is possible. Even for that old fashioned big burly guy. Thanks, I appreciate the thoughtful response. I’m glad your husband was able to learn that stuff, and I think it’s really hard for pretty much everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/784 "2018-06-09T06:02:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Hell, I’ve fought my own brain… Who won? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/785 "2018-06-09T13:03:31Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > [Male author gaze on women character bodies](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=855846) Sounds erudite, but it wasn’t. It seems the OP doubted the sex of female author because a female character talked about her breasts. Information provided to the contrary was not accepted. I am very disappointed in this characterization of that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/786 "2018-06-09T16:07:56Z")
I had this thought while readying through the **Dr Crap** thread and follow up. Maybe it will help explain the reaction women have to topics men find innocuous. Asking women about experiences in the sexual realm if you are not a women is like asking people of color about their experiences with racism when you are a member of the oppressing class.\* It is fraught with risk that you will make assumptions about their experiences, about your own perceptions of their experiences, and that you will find yourself justifying behaviors, including your own, even when you’ve asked for others to talk. Sexuality outside of our safe zones is risky. Historically, this stretches back untold millennia. Our every interaction with strange men is weighted with the possibility of violence. We have been property, worth nothing more than the children we could bear. In the US, we did not get the Vote until 1920. Our husbands could legally rape us until the 1980s. We required our husbands’ permission to own property, open banking accounts and so on, well into last century. We are still assaulted, harassed, leered at, and treated as sexual toys everywhere we go. Women generally don’t find strangers taking a prurient interest in their sexual behavior a safe topic. The way you ask the question matters, and your expectations matter. So, again, I’m not saying that we can’t talk about almost anything here. We can and should. I am saying that it gets tiring to wade through all of the assumptions, and poorly written threads about women bragging on their genitalia don’t help. \*With apologies for re-using this metaphor. People seem to understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/787 "2018-06-09T16:33:32Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Asking women about experiences in the sexual realm if you are not a women is like asking people of color about their experiences with racism when you are a member of the oppressing class.\* It is fraught with risk that you will make assumptions about their experiences, about your own perceptions of their experiences, and that you will find yourself justifying behaviors, including your own, even when you’ve asked for others to talk. I agree with all that you said, but not that it pertains to the IMHO thread in question. The OP was not asking women, he directed his question in a way to encourage men to participate. It probably wasn’t meant for us. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/788 "2018-06-09T16:59:49Z")
Yep, and then he got pissy about being called on it. The thread just prompted my thoughts on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/789 "2018-06-09T18:47:21Z")
> [@Shagunathor](#): > > Tautology. Thank you. I’ve never felt so honored in all my years here - my idiotic rambling has prompted a rare and noble seldom heard from lurker to speak! Surely there is some sort of prize or reward Ed Zotti hands out for this. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/790 "2018-06-09T19:11:58Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Asking women about experiences in the sexual realm if you are not a women is like asking people of color about their experiences with racism when you are a member of the oppressing class.\* It is fraught with risk that you will make assumptions about their experiences, about your own perceptions of their experiences, and that you will find yourself justifying behaviors, including your own, even when you’ve asked for others to talk. It is fraught with risk, yes, but I think it’s possible to ask these questions tastefully and respectfully. That is the key. The kind of thread that **AcePlace** , _testa-di-cazz’_ that he is, is a good example of what **NOT TO DO.** ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/791 "2018-06-09T19:49:53Z")
Yes indeedy. If you find yourself using the word “cooter”, you might need to re-think. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/792 "2018-06-09T19:54:56Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > If you find yourself using the word “cooter”, you might need to re-think. Definitely rethink unless it’s in reference to [a certain former US Representative from Georgia or the character he portrayed on TV.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Jones_(American_actor_and_politician)) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/793 "2018-06-09T22:09:48Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > So, again, I’m not saying that we can’t talk about almost anything here. We can and should. I am saying that it gets tiring to wade through all of the assumptions, and poorly written threads about women bragging on their genitalia don’t help. I’m beginning to dimly perceive something I can enthusiastically support. Most threads are malformed in some way, because posters are imperfect. But some threads seem destined for trainwreck, titillation, or other destinies having little to do with fighting ignorance. [Stirring the pot](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21011867&postcount=140) isn’t a terrific goal. Having fun and making wisecracks should be encouraged, but not if you’re constantly honking your clown horns in one group or bystander’s eardrums. Punch up, not down I say. We have a mix of posters here, and I’m guessing it’s reasonable to conclude that most don’t give a shit. But some of us do. How can I put this? I _try_ to submit tight material. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/794 "2018-06-10T01:27:00Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > He has been pitted a lot for being a mouthbreathing, racist, homophobic, ass clown. I gave him the beneof the doubt but you were absolutely right. I assume he is a well-known troll? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/795 "2018-06-10T01:53:15Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I’m beginning to dimly perceive something I can enthusiastically support. > > Most threads are malformed in some way, because posters are imperfect. But some threads seem destined for trainwreck, titillation, or other destinies having little to do with fighting ignorance. [Stirring the pot](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21011867&postcount=140) isn’t a terrific goal. Having fun and making wisecracks should be encouraged, but not if you’re constantly honking your clown horns in one group or bystander’s eardrums. Punch up, not down I say. > > We have a mix of posters here, and I’m guessing it’s reasonable to conclude that most don’t give a shit. But some of us do. How can I put this? I _try_ to submit tight material. I think you’ve got it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/796 "2018-06-10T06:22:02Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Who won? You know what really sucks? It’s usually the brain. Despite how much “you” try to fight it. That fucking piece of shit will convince you that the best course of action is to kill yourself despite knowing it will die too. It’s a piece of shit that way. Despite the human brain being the only thing, that we know of, to name itself, which is pretty awesome, it’s a trolling asshole that makes “you” feel bad about “you”. And thus make it feel bad about itself. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/797 "2018-06-10T06:30:21Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > You know what really sucks? It’s usually the brain. Despite how much “you” try to fight it. That fucking piece of shit will convince you that the best course of action is to kill yourself despite knowing it will die too. It’s a piece of shit that way. > > Despite the human brain being the only thing, that we know of, to name itself, which is pretty awesome, it’s a trolling asshole that makes “you” feel bad about “you”. And thus make it feel bad about itself. Watch it with the brain bashing. Its my second favorite organ. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/798 "2018-06-10T10:03:57Z")
Mine too. Loves me some Hammond. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/799 "2018-06-10T21:33:00Z")
That linked UR post is an admission of trolling, and should be treated as such. He admitting he’s trying to piss people off. I am glad it was moderated as such. Somehow I’d avoided putting him on ignore. No longer, since I now know he’s not just clueless. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/800 "2018-06-10T21:40:55Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > You know what really sucks? It’s usually the brain. Despite how much “you” try to fight it. That fucking piece of shit will convince you that the best course of action is to kill yourself despite knowing it will die too. It’s a piece of shit that way. > > Despite the human brain being the only thing, that we know of, to name itself, which is pretty awesome, it’s a trolling asshole that makes “you” feel bad about “you”. And thus make it feel bad about itself. A post like this worries me. Do you personally have any plans or current thoughts of self harm? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=41)