# Male Centrism at the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437 "2018-06-05T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/921 "2018-06-15T20:50:28Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/922 "2018-06-15T20:52:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, those are two possible conclusions, I agree. The amount of time that elapsed between the start of dating and the laying down of those ridiculous rules, however, leans more towards the first one. Why? Where does your expertise come from to conclude that? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/923 "2018-06-15T20:55:36Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I can accept desperation but what’s harder for me to grasp powerlessness. > > My understanding of women in these types of situations is that they usually have no means of support. No money, no friends or family to lean on. No place to go, then there’s the kids to worry about… So leaving the situation is a monumental task. > > This lady, as far as I can tell, had none of those issues. All she had to do was drive across town and get herself a hotel room until she can sort things out. > > Am I missing something here? I’m willing to listen with an open mind. Can’t speak well enough to her situation to know. But I can imagine the mental gymnastics women put themselves through to justify being treated like crap. Powerlessness comes in many different forms, and frankly I don’t feel knowledgeable to take her at anything but her word. Her actions showed she felt she coudln’t leave. I pity her and sometimes feel “there but for the grace of god go I”. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/924 "2018-06-15T20:58:47Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Am I missing something here? I mean…yeah? > **[8 Steps That Explain Why Women Stay in Abusive Relationships - Ms. Magazine](http://msmagazine.com/2016/05/11/8-steps-that-explain-why-women-stay-in-abusive-relationships/)** > > This article was first published by The Huffington Post The question that is always asked of victims of domestic abuse is “Why don’t/didn’t you just leave?” I know sometimes even \[…\] > **[Why Do Women Stay In Bad Relationships?](https://liveboldandbloom.com/07/relationships/women-stay-abusive-relationships)** > > Why do women stay in abusive relationships? In this post I share 6 of the most common reasons why. > **[11 Reasons Why People in Abusive Relationships Can't "Just Leave" - One Love...](https://www.joinonelove.org/learn/why_leaving_abuse_is_hard/)** > > \[vc\_row\]\[vc\_column\]\[vc\_column\_text\]When many people hear that someone is in an unhealthy or abusive relationship, their first question is, “Why don’t they leave?” If you’ve never been through an abusive relationship, this sort of response might seem... > **[Why Do People Stay in Abusive Relationships?](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/romance-redux/201303/why-do-people-stay-in-abusive-relationships)** > > Mark Warden's recent comments about domestic violence reflect our shared confusion and impatience as a society. > **[Eight Reasons Women Stay in Abusive Relationships](https://ifstudies.org/blog/eight-reasons-women-stay-in-abusive-relationships)** > > When NFL linebacker Ray Rice knocked his fiancée Janay Palmer unconscious in an elevator in 2014, it didn't initially get much attention. He was accused of domestic violence and suspended for two games. After a few weeks, he was formally charged, but... > **[I Stayed in My Abusive Relationship For Nine Years and Not For Financial Reasons](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-we-stay-a-deeper-look_b_10315292)** > > You hear this all the time. Someone brings allegations of domestic abuse against someone else, and the immediate reaction of the general public is to assume the accuser is making the whole thing up. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/925 "2018-06-15T22:10:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I just don’t see why a young successful person like that would stay in that relationship past the two week point as described in her own article. People are complicated. > [@](#): > > It has to be because she has some type of issue. No normal person would stay in that scenario. One shouldn’t rush to judgement based on what you think you or other people might have done. The range is what is “normal” is pretty enormous for humans. Not that it matters, really. At the end of the day even if she was a cynical gold digger, a neurotic basketcase or simply foolish, abuse is still abuse. We shouldn’t give her shit just because she stuck around hopefully, only to end up taking more. We should just give her sympathy for the raft of shit she took. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/926 "2018-06-16T12:31:41Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, but that’s just it. I believe her story. I just don’t see why a young successful person like that would stay in that relationship past the two week point as described in her own article. It has to be because she has some type of issue. No normal person would stay in that scenario. It’s obvious that neither you nor someone you know has escaped from an abusive relationship. A good friend of ours ended up in an abusive relationship. She was systematically broken down, but luckily she was finally able to escape to the local women’s shelter and got out of the relationship. My wife and I were thoroughly shocked to hear about it when she told us. She was - and still is - one of the toughest women I’ve ever known. She didn’t take a gram of crap from anyone. She was literally the last person I’d imagine ending up in a relationship like that. Still, she did, she was broken down to an incredible degree and she barely escaped. “No normal person would stay in that scenario.” That’s just a crapton of bovine manure. You seriously underestimate the abusers’ talent. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/927 "2018-06-16T13:43:32Z")
I don’t know why it’s hard to understand. I think it may just be hard to believe. Abusers are really, really good at tricking you into staying with them. They’re good at manipulation. They’re good at finding people who respond well to their particular form of manipulation. Whether you stay in a relationship is not some logical thought process where you list out the pros and cons. It is governed almost entirely by feelings. If he can manipulate her feelings, then he can keep her with him. Same as a woman can get you to “think with your dick.” In her particular case, it appears he gave her little slivers of a good relationship, making her feel good. But he also did this bad stuff. Because she liked the good bits, she made excuses for the bad bits. It appears the big idea he used at first was that he had just gotten out of a relationship. She eventually slipped into the classic “but I can fix him” mode, and it took her a while to realize that she couldn’t. He seems to have also used gaslighting, making her question what she remembered and her own judgment. Maybe he didn’t do that bad thing. Maybe she’s making it bigger than it is. Whatever the reason, I don’t think it’s right to try and judge how the victim should have acted. That’s still victim blaming. The victim acted in the way they thought was okay at that time, and nothing she did was a justification for abuse. I see no reason to limit my sympathy for her or disgust at him in any way over it. Maybe we can also as a secondary goal push ideas of red flags to watch out for before you get in too deep. But, then, that’s exactly what the article was for. She was warning people not to make the mistakes she made. So it’s redundant to tell people that she should have seen the red flags. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Elliot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jane_elliot/32/6166_2.png) [@Jane\_Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/928 "2018-06-16T13:58:04Z")
What was the quote she used from Bojack Horseman? “When you’re wearing rose colored glasses red flags just look like flags”. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/929 "2018-06-16T19:09:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t know why it’s hard to understand. I think it may just be hard to believe. Abusers are really, really good at tricking you into staying with them. They’re good at manipulation. They’re good at finding people who respond well to their particular form of manipulation. > > Whether you stay in a relationship is not some logical thought process where you list out the pros and cons. It is governed almost entirely by feelings. If he can manipulate her feelings, then he can keep her with him. Same as a woman can get you to “think with your dick.” > > In her particular case, it appears he gave her little slivers of a good relationship, making her feel good. But he also did this bad stuff. Because she liked the good bits, she made excuses for the bad bits. It appears the big idea he used at first was that he had just gotten out of a relationship. She eventually slipped into the classic “but I can fix him” mode, and it took her a while to realize that she couldn’t. > > He seems to have also used gaslighting, making her question what she remembered and her own judgment. Maybe he didn’t do that bad thing. Maybe she’s making it bigger than it is. > > Whatever the reason, I don’t think it’s right to try and judge how the victim should have acted. That’s still victim blaming. The victim acted in the way they thought was okay at that time, and nothing she did was a justification for abuse. I see no reason to limit my sympathy for her or disgust at him in any way over it. > > Maybe we can also as a secondary goal push ideas of red flags to watch out for before you get in too deep. But, then, that’s exactly what the article was for. She was warning people not to make the mistakes she made. So it’s redundant to tell people that she should have seen the red flags. Shut up, Big…oh, shit. You actually hit the nail on the head this time. Credit where it’s due. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/930 "2018-06-16T19:36:09Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Why? > > Where does your expertise come from to conclude that? Please note that I am in complete disagreement with **manson1972**. However, I feel compelled to ask about this, because it comes up from time to time when one poster disagrees with another. My question: this is a general interest message board and a general interest topic - why does one need expertise to post their opinions? It does not seem to me that what he posted was any more than an opinion about a previous post. There are, as far as I know, no qualified psychologists responding in this thread. Does his opinion alone require credentials? This is intended as an honest question about tactics when disagreeing with another poster. I know this is the Pit but when there is something that looks like debate I hope people would still be rational and fair, especially people whom I have come to respect. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/931 "2018-06-16T20:56:52Z")
Some things just aren’t answered by common sense or common experience. The dynamics of an abusive relationship is in many ways in that category. You can’t just say “well, I woulda left him a long time ago” and think your opinion means as much as someone who has at least spent some time looking at the problem. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/932 "2018-06-16T20:59:28Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Please note that I am in complete disagreement with **manson1972**. However, I feel compelled to ask about this, because it comes up from time to time when one poster disagrees with another. My question: this is a general interest message board and a general interest topic - why does one need expertise to post their opinions? It does not seem to me that what he posted was any more than an opinion about a previous post. There are, as far as I know, no qualified psychologists responding in this thread. Does his opinion alone require credentials? > > This is intended as an honest question about tactics when disagreeing with another poster. I know this is the Pit but when there is something that looks like debate I hope people would still be rational and fair, especially people whom I have come to respect. There are opinions and there are informed opinions. When making a definitive statement of what is normal and what is not, I would expect some expertise to inform that opinion. It was not a sweeping debate tactic, it was a sincere question as why he thinks he has an educated basis for that specific opinion. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/933 "2018-06-16T21:11:17Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Some things just aren’t answered by common sense or common experience. The dynamics of an abusive relationship is in many ways in that category. You can’t just say “well, I woulda left him a long time ago” and think your opinion means as much as someone who has at least spent some time looking at the problem. It’s like expecting someone who’s bipolar or who has clinical depression or paranoid schizophrenia to just power through and snap out of it. When you’re immersed in a situation and a carefully curated reality with limited access to outside perspectives you have a million reasons why you should just give in vs the tenuous hope that you could get out alive and well with intact self esteem if you “just left him” the way everyone says you should. You get so good at twisting yourself into a pretzel to fit into your everyday life that regular spaces feel weird and difficult to navigate. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/934 "2018-06-16T21:31:31Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > It’s like expecting someone who’s bipolar or who has clinical depression or paranoid schizophrenia to just power through and snap out of it. When you’re immersed in a situation and a carefully curated reality with limited access to outside perspectives you have a million reasons why you should just give in vs the tenuous hope that you could get out alive and well with intact self esteem if you “just left him” the way everyone says you should. You get so good at twisting yourself into a pretzel to fit into your everyday life that regular spaces feel weird and difficult to navigate. I think the Depression example is probably the best one for an illustrative analogy. Everybody’s been depressed, so they (think they) understand Depression. Similarly everyone has had to deal with abusive jerks so they (think they) understand partner abuse. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/935 "2018-06-17T03:03:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I think the Depression example is probably the best one for an illustrative analogy. Everybody’s been depressed, so they (think they) understand Depression. Similarly everyone has had to deal with abusive jerks so they (think they) understand partner abuse. no, it’s more like everyone who has been _sad_ thinks they understand depression. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/936 "2018-06-17T03:20:58Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I think Chessic Sense just doesn’t think there’s any poor and/or rural Democrats. That’s neither true nor relevant. I’m saying that the SDMB is a tiny, specific demographic, and neither Republicans nor poor nor rural people are among them. If you’re just one of those, you’re treated with hostility equally. > [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > What are you talking about? I am a young conservative poor rural person. I would be amiss if the womenfolk left though. Please don’t make me a young conservative poor rural amiss person. Yeah, but they’re hostile to you all the same. I’m just shocked this “community” is suddenly surprised to see itself called on the carpet to answer for all the demographics it’s ostracized over the years. It’s not like people didn’t announce their departures and the reasons for them. Most of the time, it was “don’t let the door hit you on the way out.” Now all of a sudden, women are saying “I don’t like these threads where men talk about sex” and the men are quick to apologize and give the “Don’t leave me, I can change” speech. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/937 "2018-06-17T03:53:56Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > … I’m saying that the SDMB is a tiny, specific demographic, and neither Republicans nor poor nor rural people are among them. If you’re just one of those, you’re treated with hostility equally. … The SDMB, having grown out of a column in an urban alternative paper, has in fact always had a skewed demographic. To the urban and more educated and/or intellectual side in particular and trending toward liberal as that tends to travel with those features. That said there are quite a few rural, lower SES, Republican, and conservative contributors as well. There are jerks on all sides in all groups to all groups and sometimes simple differences of thought can be felt as hostility. At this point I do not trust my impressions - my impression, expressed early in this thread, had been that there was no ongoing loss of female doper share, but, with help from others pointing me to past polls, I found that impression was as a matter of fact wrong. Still I will venture my impression that we have over recent years if anything _grown_ our share of rural. lower SES, Republican, and conservative contributors. That diversity of perspectives is to be encouraged. But if a poster consistently behaves jerkishly (or as some vulgar body art or another) or trolls … conservative, progressive, rural, urban, rich, poor … all will be encouraged by many to not let that door hit them on the way out. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/938 "2018-06-17T06:22:07Z")
Since this board leans liberal, a lot of the conservatives who stick around seem to not be at all like the conservatives I know in real life, but the ones who want to “stick it to the liberals.” If your goal is to stick it to the majority of the board, then it’s not surprising you don’t last or become a pariah. There are some who are good, don’t get me wrong. And there may be more who just don’t get involved in the political stuff too much. BTW, I am small town rural. I don’t even live within a city limits. I have occasionally felt some hostility towards “flyover country” and “rednecks,” but I find it’s mostly okay here in that respect. No one seems to hate me because I’m rural–though I do admit that some people seem to think I’m in a different world for having beliefs shared by most of the people I know who live around me. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/939 "2018-06-18T15:53:12Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > It’s obvious that neither you nor someone you know has escaped from an abusive relationship. A good friend of ours ended up in an abusive relationship. Was your friend a young successful woman with her own ability to take care of herself? Was she given a list of clearly ridiculous rules 2 weeks after she started dating the guy? If not, I don’t know what your friend has anything to do with this scenario. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/940 "2018-06-18T16:06:20Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Was your friend a young successful woman with her own ability to take care of herself? Was she given a list of clearly ridiculous rules 2 weeks after she started dating the guy? If not, I don’t know what your friend has anything to do with this scenario. I really don’t get why you find this so unbelievable. It’s completely impossible in your mind that a successful young woman can get caught up in such a relationship. Even when the success of the woman is solely based on being a fun, witty, comic book loving hot chick rather than being a world renowned psychologist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=48)