# Male Centrism at the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437 "2018-06-05T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/161 "2018-06-05T14:08:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Since when does ATMB not have any moderation? > > Need a safe space, snowflake? Did you look at the thread I started in ATMB? No moderation there, totally off the rails simply for asking the question. I don’t need a safe space, but I know a Pit thread is not the place for rational discussion. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/162 "2018-06-05T14:10:12Z")
Since the mod note at the end of the closed thread you were asking about specified why the thread was being closed and it was not “graphical sexual content,” that entire thread was testament to your stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/163 "2018-06-05T14:12:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > _ **Ladeez un Gennelmenn !** _: I Present, For Your Delectation - The Fabulous Flying Whataboutism! Disappointed I didn’t mention you? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/164 "2018-06-05T14:13:10Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Since the mod note at the end of the closed thread you were asking about specified why the thread was being closed and it was not “graphical sexual content,” that entire thread was testament to your stupidity. It did not, and the mod admitted that it didn’t. So continue with the lies if you like, it’s a tribute to something far worse than stupidity on your part. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/165 "2018-06-05T14:16:21Z")
Wrong. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20997684&postcount=5](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20997684&postcount=5) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/166 "2018-06-05T14:22:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That is a good point. Read my note above, I didn’t mean to sound like that. It is important to bring this subject up. I just got worn down by the baseless criticism I received for innocently asking why a thread was closed and the immediate assumption that I must support the kind of behavior that is being addressed. My responses aren’t about what I support in terms of content, only that I don’t support censorship, and now if I can talk to you or others who are reasonable I’d like to find out what can be done constructively, even if it’s not a simple solution. I would hope we would all be looking in the same general direction even if we disagree on the exact route to take. Here’s the disconnect. You think this thread is about your post in ATMB and your experiences. You think the question on the table is "are the men on the SDMB culpable? Ought they change? " That’s a male-centric point of view. It assumes the point of interest is the male agent and his choices/responsibilities/experience. But the issue on the table is really what is the female experience like on the SDMB? " ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/167 "2018-06-05T14:30:48Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Disappointed I didn’t mention you? Why would I expect you to? I’m not Black. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/168 "2018-06-05T14:30:58Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Here’s the disconnect. You think this thread is about your post in ATMB and your experiences. You think the question on the table is "are the men on the SDMB culpable? Ought they change? " That’s a male-centric point of view. It assumes the point of interest is the male agent and his choices/responsibilities/experience. But the issue on the table is really what is the female experience like on the SDMB? " That is amazingly well said. Kudos. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/169 "2018-06-05T14:31:18Z")
This is a great thread, and I wouldn’t presume to offer much anything constructive to the conversation. I’m just reading it and soaking it in (the good, the bad and holy shit, there’s some real ugly). I will offer up that the one thing that did jump out to me is Manda JO’s post on the white, male, middle classness of the whole place. She put that very well. It seems to me that those fellas (a group in which I fall), tend to believe very strongly in the value of their opinions. That’s why, even in threads which are clearly directed toward groups in which they don’t belong (women, PoC, etc), they (we) still tend to pop in with “Well, I’m a straight man, but…” comments, or, worse, “Your experience [as a woman, black person] doesn’t line up with my opinion and is therefore wrong” comments. To paraphrase that old Calvinist, Abraham Kuyper, “There is not one square inch in the whole domain of the Straight Dope Message Board over which white, straight, middle class white men do not cry, Mine!” Again, I’m soaking in all of this thread, and hopefully will cry “Mine!” less going forward. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/170 "2018-06-05T14:32:29Z")
Nm ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/171 "2018-06-05T14:34:07Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Here’s the disconnect. You think this thread is about your post in ATMB and your experiences. You think the question on the table is "are the men on the SDMB culpable? Ought they change? " That’s a male-centric point of view. It assumes the point of interest is the male agent and his choices/responsibilities/experience. But the issue on the table is really what is the female experience like on the SDMB? " I don’t quite think that, but I admit to being to not being totally objective in a Pit thread. I hear what the women are saying, I have to defer to their experience. I am a minority of one, the only one of my kind, I’ve faced discrimination for that at times, but nothing like what women experience nor others who are not viewed by the general public as a ‘white man’, a club I hate being included in. I’m all for clear labeling of threads. If it would help I’d support a Locker Room forum for men to act like the teenage boys most of us are in some way. It’s just not the way I am to simply say “I feel your pain”, a fault of my own. I would have been better off starting by acknowledging the problem and then asking how to find a solution. I’m just the kind of person who analyzes an issue as objectively as I can, over analyzing and with the limited objectivity that any of us have. I apologize, especially to you who I recall has always been polite and straightforward even when my cantankerous and contrarian personality shows through. So if I could start over, I would say this: This is certainly a problem affecting many Dopers, probably mostly women, but could apply to anybody who feels the constant pressure and unfairness of a male dominated message board in a culture which is still male dominated as well. I am not a woman, I can sympathize with how this problem makes people feel, but I can’t feel it directly the way you do. I don’t want to contribute to the problem, I want to find solutions. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Elliot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jane_elliot/32/6166_2.png) [@Jane\_Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/172 "2018-06-05T14:37:23Z")
I’ll come out of lurker mode to say that the OP is 100% correct. This board isn’t bad as far as it goes, but the good ole boys club is what keeps me from doing much besides reading. When you tell a person “just ignore it”, “don’t click on the thread” etc, you are saying that you don’t care if women are here, as long as you can continue to have a boys club. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/173 "2018-06-05T14:37:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Did you look at the thread I started in ATMB? Did you look at yourself replying to me in that thread? > [@](#): > > No moderation there Provably [bullshit](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20998428&postcount=88). > [@](#): > > I don’t need a safe space You sure? Might want to sue your own posts for slander, then. > [@](#): > > , but I know a Pit thread is not the place for rational discussion. Well, not if you’re going to be a dismissive mansplainer in a thread calling out male centrism, no. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/174 "2018-06-05T14:41:59Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > … > > So if I could start over, I would say this: > > This is certainly a problem affecting many Dopers, probably mostly women, but could apply to anybody who feels the constant pressure and unfairness of a male dominated message board in a culture which is still male dominated as well. I am not a woman, I can sympathize with how this problem makes people feel, but I can’t feel it directly the way you do. I don’t want to contribute to the problem, I want to find solutions. That’s a good start. What do you think a good solution might be? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/175 "2018-06-05T14:43:04Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Nm > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I agree that the warning could have been more explicit, but the “acting like this” part of my warning was referencing the snarky attitude he was exhibiting. Again, I did not know about the underlying controversy when I started the ATMB thread. I’m not blaming you for anything, the warning was not clear to someone who didn’t know the back story, I can see that it would seem very clear to a lot of Dopers who had been following along, and I just wanted to clarify what happened only to suddenly find myself in the middle of a shitstorm. Thank you for clarifying matters in that thread, and the assistance you provided through a PM. I’m sorry you had to be the mod to close that thread and deal with it, I doubt you did anything to deserve that. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/176 "2018-06-05T14:53:59Z")
TL;DR — Yeah, this place isn’t a bastion of male support for women’s concerns. Elab — Every social environment has its own standards of ‘politically correct’ — by which I mean a certain sense of “we’ve discussed that already and long sense reached a general consensus and if you’re gonna fit in here you’re going to need to get on board with it”. The SDMB has a pretty strong consensus about not treating people of different ethnicities, races, sexes, sexual orientations, or gender identities as if some are inherently superior to others. In the case of gender, though, there’s no board consensus about feminist insights. Feminism in its entirety is still very much debatable. Some board regulars consider feminism, feminists, and feminist theory to be bad horrible politics and say so, and many of those individuals are people who otherwise present themselves as leftists although there are some conservatives that fit this pattern in here too. The upshot is that the prevailing attitude on gender hovers around “women are totally equal, but they may be totally different, or kinda different, or something, and maybe different standards should apply to men vs women, and we aren’t at all sure that there is or ever has been a pattern of oppression against women, some of us take that for granted but others think women have had it easy with guys taking care of them etc”. And the prevailing attitude on feminist concepts and claims is akin to “well, basic egalitarian feminism is OK, I mean equal rights and all that, but everyone knows feminist radicals have said all kinds of totally uncool shit, they’re man-hating and they like censorship and they make ridiculous over-the-top statements and we’re against all that extreme stuff”. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/177 "2018-06-05T14:55:47Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Yeah, I think that condescendingly explaining to a bunch of women what does and doesn’t constitute misogyny is, um, what’s the word? Tip of my tongue. Forget my own head next. Oh, yeah. Misogynist. Wrong. Educating the ignorant is not misogyny. Contrary to what a correspondence school degree in Womyn’s Studies may have taught you, disagreeing with a self identified female member of the species is not automatically misogyny. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/178 "2018-06-05T15:01:00Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Here’s the disconnect. You think this thread is about your post in ATMB and your experiences. You think the question on the table is "are the men on the SDMB culpable? Ought they change? " That’s a male-centric point of view. It assumes the point of interest is the male agent and his choices/responsibilities/experience. But the issue on the table is really what is the female experience like on the SDMB? " I disagree on two points. [ol] [li]Whether this thread is about one to the exclusion of the other.[/li][li]Whether this thread should be - or even can be - about one to the exclusion of the other.[/li][/ol] At least I think I disagree on these points. Unless what you’re really saying is not that it’s all about women’s experience and not about men’s actions, but rather that it’s about both these things but only from the perspective of women, with men’s perspectives completely suppressed (other than that of men whose entire perspective is “whatever women say goes”). ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/179 "2018-06-05T15:04:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Wrong. Educating the ignorant is not misogyny. Contrary to what a correspondence school degree in Womyn’s Studies may have taught you, disagreeing with a self identified female member of the species is not automatically misogyny. I think you’re trolling now. No one is this dumb. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437/180 "2018-06-05T15:06:39Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I appreciate the kind words. But I am not intending on leaving. There have been times when I have entertained the thought, though. > > I really don’t know what the solution is. I just don’t think telling posters to skip over content they don’t like is a satisying response if the goal here to maintain a diverse, interesting set of posters. > > Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk Why isn’t it? Why should every thread every topic be subjected to an arbitrary set of likability? That’s borderline childish to demand that every topic meets with my approval isn’t it? And when did women become so fragile that Betty vs Veronica is triggering? Hmm… this slippery slope in action almost seems scripted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-centrism-at-the-dope/815437.md?page=10)