# Male sexuality at its most banal and pathetic (twisted marriage contract) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650 "2006-02-22T17:26:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/61 "2006-02-23T21:35:11Z")
Well put **Aangelica** , you said better what I was trying to say. It is possible that such a contract could exist within a safe sane consensual relationship. That said, I do also doubt that the man in question is safe or sane. Such extreme BDSM ideas as 24/7 role play would only occur between people who really know each other well, and the contract would only be drawn up if the couple were already sure that it would be agreed to. Secondly the submissive in a couple would want the contract to give ways in which he/she can receive punnishment, puinnishment would rarely if ever be sex (since if this were safe sane and consensual, sex would be a pleasure for both) but instead the form of correction the submissive enjoys (spanking, bondage, etc.). Third the rule about tieing her down and doing what he wants does not sound consensual at all, I doubt there was any plan for the use of a safeword or similar by which the submissive could control those events. Now in a real BDSM relationship such a contract might be written up, where it was unwritten and known between the couple that a safeword would always be allowed, and where tieing to a bed is a fettish of the submissive. The submissive would also more often than not break and stretch the rules in order to gain the dominating attentions of the dominant partner. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/62 "2006-02-23T21:48:08Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Secondly the submissive in a couple would want the contract to give ways in which he/she can receive punnishment, In those cases where the sub is into that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/63 "2006-02-23T21:56:17Z")
> [@Lilairen](#): > > In those cases where the sub is into that sort of thing. Thanks, I was having difficulty with that sentance. “Secondly the submissive in a couple would want the contract to give ways in which he/she can receive whatever he/she is into.” is more wordy and confusing, but what I really meant. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/64 "2006-02-23T22:30:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > But obviously, there’s something wrong with their brains, right? > > I have an anxiety disorder, and I consider that a mental illness. Yet I’m as sane as the next person. Uhm. I really mean no offense, but no, you’re not. I’m not saying you’re totally off-your-head nuts, you clearly aren’t, but you do not reach the “normal” level of sanity. A totally sane person would have no disorders. I’m sure your personality is just as strong or whatever as anyone else - but you have an anxiety disorder. You are not “as sane as the next person”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/65 "2006-02-23T22:57:58Z")
I think of “mental illness” or “insanity” as some kind of full blown psychosis- a condition where an individual has an impaired ability to perceive or process or understand objective reality. Not every mental or emotional disorder affects the ability the perceive reality. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/66 "2006-02-23T23:03:13Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > Uhm. I really mean no offense, but no, you’re not. I’m not saying you’re totally off-your-head nuts, you clearly aren’t, but you do not reach the “normal” level of sanity. A totally sane person would have no disorders. I’m sure your personality is just as strong or whatever as anyone else - but you have an anxiety disorder. You are not “as sane as the next person”. I meant legally sane. I know right from wrong. I can tell fantasy from reality. That’s all. Yes, I’m aware that I also have a mental illness. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/67 "2006-02-23T23:05:33Z")
This probably wasn’t directed at me, but I would like to address it. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I think of “mental illness” or “insanity” as some kind of full blown psychosis- a condition where an individual has an impaired ability to perceive or process or understand objective reality. I’d agree with you on that definition for insanity - but not mental illness. You call some non-life threatening or life-changing physical problems illnesses - why should mental illness be reserved for only the strongest and most affecting cases? > [@](#): > > Not every mental or emotional disorder affects the ability the perceive reality. True. But it’s a scale, with totally sane at one end and totally insane at the other. Most of the time it’s impossible to actually draw a line and say “this person is exactly this much insane”, but having a mental disorder definetly does move you further away from the “totally sane” side of the scale. Distortion of the perception of reality is certainly a long way down towards totally insane, but you don’t have to be that far down for a mental illness to have a significant effect on your life. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/68 "2006-02-23T23:11:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I meant legally sane. I know right from wrong. I can tell fantasy from reality. > > That’s all. Yes, I’m aware that I also have a mental illness. Ok, sorry. I was just objecting to the phrasing you used. No snark intended. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/69 "2006-02-24T05:10:54Z")
This is the part that really got me: > [@](#): > > You are noncompliant if you start something and can not or will not finish, even if you state that you are in pain or that something hurts. From the sentences above that, it sounds like it might be okay if she says she doesn’t want to do something painful as long as she suggests an alternative. But if she starts something, she has to finish, even if it becomes painful. That’s really messed up. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/70 "2006-02-24T05:50:07Z")
Actually this is not at all revelational. [I’ve seen it before.](http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/unireg/chapter2/chapter_2.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/839c29/32.png) [@Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phedre_no_Delaunay)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/71 "2006-02-24T14:57:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > And there’s a difference between “slavery” as a role playing fantasy and actual slavery as a reality. This right here tells me you just don’t get it. When people enter into voluntary slavery it’s not just a “fantasy” it’s the way they live their life. You don’t have to get it though, because you don’t have to participate in it. But try to realize that just because it’s not your kink doesn’t mean the practitioners of it are mentally ill. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/72 "2006-02-24T16:22:17Z")
> [@Phèdre nó Delaunay](#): > > This right here tells me you just don’t get it. When people enter into voluntary slavery it’s not just a “fantasy” it’s the way they live their life. You don’t have to get it though, because you don’t have to participate in it. But try to realize that just because it’s not your kink doesn’t mean the practitioners of it are mentally ill. 1. This guy didn’t want it to be voluntary. Like I said, I’m only talking about _this guy_ (the kidnapper/pedophile), not everyone involved in BDSM 2. I never said the practitioners were mentally ill. I’m saying _this guy_ is a sociopath (which does not the same as being insane). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/73 "2006-02-24T17:08:56Z")
> [@Phèdre nó Delaunay](#): > > This right here tells me you just don’t get it. When people enter into voluntary slavery it’s not just a “fantasy” it’s the way they live their life. You don’t have to get it though, because you don’t have to participate in it. But try to realize that just because it’s not your kink doesn’t mean the practitioners of it are mentally ill. He’s talking about this particular case, where it wasn’t a two-way fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![yohanbaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/91b2a8/32.png) [@yohanbaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yohanbaby)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/74 "2006-02-24T21:43:50Z")
> [@Phèdre nó Delaunay](#): > > This right here tells me you just don’t get it. When people enter into voluntary slavery it’s not just a “fantasy” it’s the way they live their life. You don’t have to get it though, because you don’t have to participate in it. But try to realize that just because it’s not your kink doesn’t mean the practitioners of it are mentally ill. Even if it’s “the way they live their life,” it’s still a fantasy in the sense that if the sub says “Ok, stop it for real” (or words to that effect), the dominant person had better untie the person or whatever or face prosecution. A real slave (like in the antebellum south) does not have that option. It’s entirely possible that Mr. and Mrs. Frey had a dom/sub relationship and she happily served him for some time. In that case, the “wifely expectations” document doesn’t mean that he’s done anything at all wrong. Plenty of women (and men) would be extremely turned on by receiving such a document. So you can’t conclude that he’s a sicko or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/75 "2006-02-24T21:47:13Z")
I think the fact that child porn was found in his posession make it easier to conclude he’s a perverted asshat. ---
**Author:** ![yohanbaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/91b2a8/32.png) [@yohanbaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yohanbaby)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/76 "2006-02-24T22:01:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I think the fact that child porn was found in his posession make it easier to conclude he’s a perverted asshat. That could be, but the “wifely expectations” document – which is what people are fussing about – doesn’t necessarily mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/77 "2006-03-01T12:10:11Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > -The laundry must be started at exactly 11:30:00. No exceptions. You will use one third of a cup of liquid FAB detergent, to be poured in a counterclock wise pattern over the clothing as it sits in the washer. The water used for the wash must be EXACTLY 45 degrees F, to be taken with a thermameter that I will provide you… I didn’t know Phineas Fogg was into shaved beavers. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/78 "2006-03-01T15:20:55Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > I didn’t know Phineas Fogg was into shaved beavers. Is he any relation to some guy who went around the world in eighty days? who was called _Phileas_ Fogg, in case you’re wondering. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/79 "2006-03-02T00:59:58Z")
If you admit that SM play is a consensual _playacting_ of violence and control, and defend it because its consensual, voluntary, and kink, then why is it so hard to recognize that the real thing, NON playacted, is bad? I don’t think there’s anything wrong with vore fetishes. But if you go out and actually eat women, that’s probably a bad thing. Right? Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650/80 "2006-03-03T18:43:31Z")
_shrug_ Well, whatever else he may be, he can’t have been too good at the domination thing if he couldn’t even get her to sign the contract. Don’t like his odds of having gotten her to comply with anything else. 😃 Still, he really does seem \*very \*weird. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/male-sexuality-at-its-most-banal-and-pathetic-twisted-marriage-contract/345650.md?page=3)