# Mall of America Assault and Incel Crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 16, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602 "2019-04-16T00:50:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/1 "2019-04-16T00:50:51Z")
Lost in the news flood today was the formal charging of Emmanuel Deshawn Aranda for allegedly throwing a 5-year old boy from the third floor of the Mall of America. [And buried in the news coverage of that was this little nugget](https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/04/15/charges-emmanuel-deshawn-aranda-planned-to-kill-someone-before-throwing-boy-over-balcony-at-moa/) > [@WCCO](#): > > In an interview with police, Aranda said that he had come to the mall for the past few years to talk with women, but was rejected multiple times. He said the rejection made him aggressive. According to the story, Aranda is a real piece of work in general. But is this going to turn him into some sort of MRA martyr? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/2 "2019-04-16T01:00:12Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > According to the story, Aranda is a real piece of work in general. But is this going to turn him into some sort of MRA martyr? …nope. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/3 "2019-04-16T01:06:14Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …nope. Agreed. If he was a true incel, he would have killed the boy’s mother and then thrown her over the balcony. (That guy probably needs to spend the rest of his life in a mental institution. I hope the youngster makes a full recovery.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/4 "2019-04-16T01:10:46Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > According to the story, Aranda is a real piece of work in general. But is this going to turn him into some sort of MRA martyr? No. There is [a large overlap between self-identified “MRA”/“MGTOW”/“incel” movements and the white-nationalist “alt-right”](https://www.vox.com/culture/2016/12/14/13576192/alt-right-sexism-recruitment): > [@](#): > > While it’s true that the [alt-right] movement is most frequently described in terms of the self-stated, explicit white supremacy that defines many of its corners, for many of its members, the gateway drug that led them to join the alt-right in the first place wasn’t racist rhetoric but rather sexism: extreme misogyny evolving from male bonding gone haywire. […] > > Though various branches of the movement are often at odds with one another, they share a number of core beliefs — and a common meme-flavored vernacular — that serve to unite them in what is sometimes called “the manosphere.” This realm includes the “men’s rights” movement, pickup artist culture (a community of men also labeled “PUAs” that essentially makes a game of the art of bedding women), “incels” (men who are “involuntarily celibate” because they feel women reject them), and geek gatekeepers like supporters of the Gamergate movement. Manosphere types stereotype young black men under the name “Tyrone”, a racist caricature of “savage” animalism that attractive white women supposedly find irresistible because they are, according to manosphere types, stupid and immoral and unfit to be in charge of their own sexuality. So no, the (primarily white) manosphere is definitely not going to try to make a black man like Aranda into some kind of “martyr”. Their “martyrs” are the **white** misogynists who recklessly murder people out of a sense of aggrieved entitlement at not getting laid. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/5 "2019-04-16T21:09:26Z")
It was part of a show by black online commentator Jessie Peterson [HERE.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhMOQ3_cVkM) He says that if the situation had been reversed, a white man deliberately throwing a black 5 year old boy off a balcony with an intent to kill him their would be riots and demonstrations. He says “where is White Lives Matter”? He also points out that he was a Somali immigrant who had a history of problems. He is right, its barely been covered by the media. The media doesnt mention the boy was white. he also mentions some black activists have been calling for blacks to “Raise Hell”. And that Black Lives Matter shut the mall down a couple years ago. He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/6 "2019-04-16T21:17:44Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > It was part of a show by black online commentator Jessie Peterson [HERE.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhMOQ3_cVkM) > > He says that if the situation had been reversed, a white man deliberately throwing a black 5 year old boy off a balcony with an intent to kill him their would be riots and demonstrations. He says “where is White Lives Matter”? He also points out that he was a Somali immigrant who had a history of problems. > > He is right, its barely been covered by the media. The media doesnt mention the boy was white. he also mentions some black activists have been calling for blacks to “Raise Hell”. And that Black Lives Matter shut the mall down a couple years ago. > > He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this. [Jesse Lee Peterson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Lee_Peterson) is a nutcase who “thanks God” for slavery, says most black people are “mentally retarded”, that women shouldn’t be able to vote, and many more insane and/or hateful things. His views can and should be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/7 "2019-04-16T21:21:04Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > It was part of a show by black online commentator Jessie Peterson [HERE.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhMOQ3_cVkM) > > He says that if the situation had been reversed, a white man deliberately throwing a black 5 year old boy off a balcony with an intent to kill him their would be riots and demonstrations. He says “where is White Lives Matter”? He also points out that he was a Somali immigrant who had a history of problems. > > He is right, its barely been covered by the media. The media doesnt mention the boy was white. he also mentions some black activists have been calling for blacks to “Raise Hell”. And that Black Lives Matter shut the mall down a couple years ago. > > He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this. …so that’s a “nope” vote from you as well then ? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/8 "2019-04-16T21:22:23Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > … He says “where is White Lives Matter”? … > He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this. He sounds like a real fucking moron. I use as a life affirmation the fact that I don’t know who he is. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/9 "2019-04-16T22:01:09Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > It was part of a show by black online commentator Jessie Peterson [HERE.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhMOQ3_cVkM) > > He says that if the situation had been reversed, a white man deliberately throwing a black 5 year old boy off a balcony with an intent to kill him their would be riots and demonstrations. He says “where is White Lives Matter”? He also points out that he was a Somali immigrant who had a history of problems. > > He is right, its barely been covered by the media. The media doesnt mention the boy was white. he also mentions some black activists have been calling for blacks to “Raise Hell”. And that Black Lives Matter shut the mall down a couple years ago. > > He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this. So nice to hear the insane perspective. We hear so little from the insane quadrant nowadays, good on you for doing the tortuous work of listening to a source that you would never otherwise lower yourself to outside of doing research. If the dude wanted to get MRA cred, he should have killed a woman, or killed a whole bunch of people with a large impressive penis-symbol. Killing just one kid, even in a stupid random way, isn’t much of a message. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/10 "2019-04-16T22:21:58Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > … is this going to turn him into some sort of MRA martyr? I’m going to go with “nope” as well. Aranda sounds nuts, and apparently has a rather lengthy criminal history, but most of it is just general-purpose asshole stuff (theft, assault & battery, disorderly conduct, etc), not targeting women specifically. According to [this story](https://www.twincities.com/2019/04/15/mall-of-america-suspect-told-police-he-went-there-intending-to-kill-someone-charges-say/): > [@](#): > > … he had gone to the mall on Thursday intending to kill an adult, but that it did not “work out,” court documents say. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/11 "2019-04-16T22:23:18Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > He says that if the situation had been reversed, a white man deliberately throwing a black 5 year old boy off a balcony with an intent to kill him their would be riots and demonstrations. Where were these riots and demonstrations when Dylan Roof walked into a church, murdered nine black people, and wounded three more? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/12 "2019-04-16T22:23:29Z")
Peterson being an unsavory commentator aside, does anyone truly dispute his point about the media coverage being different if the races were reversed, though? I can’t see how a white man throwing a black child off a balcony \*\*\*wouldn’t \*\*\*lead to considerably more intense media focus. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/13 "2019-04-16T22:31:35Z")
What if it was an Asian baby throwing a Jewish lady? Can you imagine the uproar?! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/14 "2019-04-16T22:49:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > No. There is a large overlap between self-identified “MRA”/“MGTOW”/“incel” movements and the white-nationalist “alt-right” No surprise. It’s pretty much the same mentality. Losers who have never accomplished anything personally but think they’re special because they have a penis/white skin. They get angry when other people don’t recognize their “superiority” and hand them the things they think they’re entitled to. They love hanging out with people that are like them because they’re scared of people who aren’t like them. And when they fail, they blame women/black people rather than acknowledge they failed because they’re failures. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/15 "2019-04-16T22:53:10Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this. I’ve been white all my life and I’ve never noticed that I’ve been oppressed over it. Maybe the white people who feel oppressed should just stop sniveling. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/16 "2019-04-16T23:08:10Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Where were these riots and demonstrations when Dylan Roof walked into a church, murdered nine black people, and wounded three more? Hey there, what’s with the reality? Why are you bringing reality into a right wing drooling moron fantasy? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/17 "2019-04-16T23:25:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Peterson being an unsavory commentator aside, does anyone truly dispute his point about the media coverage being different if the races were reversed, though? I can’t see how a white man throwing a black child off a balcony \*\*\*wouldn’t \*\*\*lead to considerably more intense media focus. How would the media deal with the fact that if the races were reversed, he would statistically get a lighter sentence? > [@](#): > > The United States Sentencing Commission reported last week that black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated white male offenders. > > The finding is based on data for fiscal years 2012-2016, and it is consistent with the prior four periods studied by the Commission. > **[Black men get longer prison sentences than white men for the same crime: Study](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/black-men-sentenced-time-white-men-crime-study/story?id=51203491)** > > Black men are 19.1 percent more likely to serve longer sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/18 "2019-04-16T23:39:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > […] does anyone truly dispute his point about the media coverage being different if the races were reversed, though? I can’t see how a white man throwing a black child off a balcony \*\*\*wouldn’t \*\*\*lead to considerably more intense media focus. Naturally, this is why we are all still so obsessed with the [David Steven Bell case from last January](https://blackamericaweb.com/2019/01/14/white-north-carolina-man-faces-assault-charges-after-punching-young-black-girl-outside-mall/). What do you mean, “Who?”? > [@](#): > > White North Carolina Man Faces Assault Charges After Punching Young Black Girl Outside Mall > > A 51-year-old white male from Black Mountain, North Carolina, has gone viral in a disturbing video showing him assaulting a 12-year-old Black girl at the Asheville Mall. […] > > David Steven Bell was arrested Saturday after punching the child in the face, sending her to the ground outside the mall. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/19 "2019-04-16T23:51:39Z")
I find it interesting how this has become all about race, just because some racist lunatic made a show blaming race for this somehow and then got referenced here. Is there any indication at all that this attack had anything to do with race? I’d gotten the impression that it was just some unbalanced dude with anger issues being angry and murderous. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602/20 "2019-04-16T23:52:49Z")
The article states they do not know if race was a factor. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-america-assault-and-incel-crime/832602.md?page=2)