# Mall of American hires a black Santa; racist come out of the woodwork **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 4, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864 "2016-12-04T20:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/61 "2016-12-06T17:11:29Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Haven’t you people figured this out yet. Half of the entire country are racists. That’s the only reason Trump was elected. These racists are your parents and children and siblings. You should do the morally right thing and never interact with those racists again. And that’s basically my mission statement now. I no longer and am going to be quiet just to keep the peace when co-workers, extended family, etc. say blatantly racist, sexist, or homophobic things. I no longer care about keeping the peace with people I find immoral. They should be called out for what they truly are. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/62 "2016-12-06T17:29:08Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > And that’s basically my mission statement now. I no longer and am going to be quiet just to keep the peace when co-workers, extended family, etc. say blatantly racist, sexist, or homophobic things. I no longer care about keeping the peace with people I find immoral. They should be called out for what they truly are. And you’re just the one to not only determine “what they really are” but also “call them out”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/63 "2016-12-06T17:35:27Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > And you’re just the one to not only determine “what they really are” but also “call them out”? What’s wrong with calling out when people say racist/homophobic/misogynistic/bigoted things? ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/64 "2016-12-06T17:57:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What’s wrong with calling out when people say racist/homophobic/misogynistic/bigoted things? Nothing, if things were actually that . . er. . .black and white :o At the moment I’m talking specifically about **dracoi’s** post. If I were a person of color - and if you met me there’s a good chance you’d say I am- I might want Santa to be the same color as I. Maybe not. But why is it racist to expect to see what has been, up to this point, the most widely accepted representation of a fictional character? That’s generally what \*I \*would \*expect \*. I wouldn’t _care_, but when I hear “santa” I think of a fat old white dude. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/65 "2016-12-06T18:11:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I know. The other day, I went to a doctor, and it was a black woman! I want a traditional doctor – scrubs, stethoscope, and white skin and a penis. What makes a black woman think she can do a white man’s job? I’m hoping you go to your dentist for something other than symbolic reasons. It’s more than a photo op for the grandparents, right? Since a dentist does a real job and needs actual skills to do that job, it’s quite clear to me that skin color is irrelevant. Santa, on the other hand, is a living prop. He (and, yes, I’m sexist too, because I wouldn’t want a female Santa unless it’s Mrs. Claus) is only there so people can take pictures with the kids on his lap. It not about skills, it’s only about appearance. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/66 "2016-12-06T18:21:27Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > And you’re just the one to not only determine “what they really are” but also “call them out”? The people in my life who say this shit? Yes, of course I am. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/67 "2016-12-06T18:29:31Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > Nothing, if things were actually that . . er. . .black and white :o At the moment I’m talking specifically about **dracoi’s** post. Your clever puns have no place in a thread like this! 😛 > [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > I wouldn’t _care_, but when I hear “santa” I think of a fat old white dude. Don’t forget the whiskey breath. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/68 "2016-12-06T18:33:12Z")
Once minority-president-elect Trump actually takes office it’s only going to get worse. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/69 "2016-12-06T18:33:24Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > Your clever puns have no place in a thread like this! 😛 > > Don’t forget the whiskey breath. Goes without saying. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/70 "2016-12-06T18:37:04Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > I’m hoping you go to your dentist for something other than symbolic reasons. It’s more than a photo op for the grandparents, right? > > Since a dentist does a real job and needs actual skills to do that job, it’s quite clear to me that skin color is irrelevant. > > Santa, on the other hand, is a living prop. He (and, yes, I’m sexist too, because I wouldn’t want a female Santa unless it’s Mrs. Claus) is only there so people can take pictures with the kids on his lap. It not about skills, it’s only about appearance. And, of course, only white people have kids. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/71 "2016-12-06T18:53:27Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > And, of course, only white people have kids. Huh? What? OK, let’s back up here because I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I’m saying that if I hypothetically take my fictional kids for a photo with Santa, I want him to be a traditional Santa, and traditionally Santa is white. Apparently, this attitude is racist. But now you’re suggesting… what? That non-white people prefer non-white Santas? Are they also racist then? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/72 "2016-12-06T20:38:57Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > Nothing, if things were actually that . . er. . .black and white :o At the moment I’m talking specifically about **dracoi’s** post. If I were a person of color - and if you met me there’s a good chance you’d say I am- I might want Santa to be the same color as I. Maybe not. But why is it racist to expect to see what has been, up to this point, the most widely accepted representation of a fictional character? That’s generally what \*I \*would \*expect \*. I wouldn’t _care_, but when I hear “santa” I think of a fat old white dude. > [@dracoi](#): > > I’m hoping you go to your dentist for something other than symbolic reasons. It’s more than a photo op for the grandparents, right? > > Since a dentist does a real job and needs actual skills to do that job, it’s quite clear to me that skin color is irrelevant. > > Santa, on the other hand, is a living prop. He (and, yes, I’m sexist too, because I wouldn’t want a female Santa unless it’s Mrs. Claus) is only there so people can take pictures with the kids on his lap. It not about skills, it’s only about appearance. Any and all of this might be a good point if there were no more white Santas. But there are tons of white Santas, in this mall and every other. There is no shortage of white Santas for parents who want their kids to see a white Santa. There is one black Santa in a mall in Minnesota. Yes, it is ridiculous and racist to object to a single black Santa. This black Santa doesn’t hurt anyone, and offers a presentation of a Santa that many families will find more welcoming (since Santa is, not surprisingly, depicted in different ways in different communities). I don’t object to a family who wants to bring their kids to see a certain type of Santa. I do object to a family who insists that _every single Santa_ must comport to their preferred type of Santa. And yes, anyone asserting this is asserting something racist. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/73 "2016-12-06T21:11:25Z")
Well, I’m not saying that every single Santa needs to be white. I’m only talking about the Santas that I would personally want to visit if I did such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/74 "2016-12-06T21:34:56Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Well, I’m not saying that every single Santa needs to be white. I’m only talking about the Santas that I would personally want to visit if I did such a thing. Then what point from the racists do you agree with? The complaints from racists were about the existence of a single black Santa in a mall. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/75 "2016-12-06T21:56:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then what point from the racists do you agree with? The complaints from racists were about the existence of a single black Santa in a mall. I thought I was pretty clear. If I was going to take my kids to the mall for a picture with Santa, it would need to be a white Santa because the traditional Santa is white and I would want something that fit the traditional image. If the Mall of America has a black Santa, then I’d need to find a different mall with a Santa that I wanted. Since the specific call to action in the article is a boycott of the mall, is what I described not essentially a boycott? But to be clear: - The mall has the right to hire whatever Santas it wants to hire. - I’m not interested in punishing the mall for their black Santa, it’s just not the “service” I would want to “buy.” - People have the right to go to whatever mall they like and I fully endorse finding the Santa you want to take a picture of. - I have no interest in convince other people not to go to the mall. - I have no argument about purity or qualities of the races or anything else. Santa is a prop for a specific scene and in my mind that scene needs to meet certain visual criteria. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/76 "2016-12-06T21:56:55Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Well, I’m not saying that every single Santa needs to be white. I’m only talking about the Santas that I would personally want to visit if I did such a thing. What’s your stance on elves? It pisses me off to see elves who, although short, are not true dwarfs (or is it dwarves?). Continuity. It’s important. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/77 "2016-12-06T23:19:07Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > I thought I was pretty clear. If I was going to take my kids to the mall for a picture with Santa, it would need to be a white Santa because the traditional Santa is white and I would want something that fit the traditional image. If the Mall of America has a black Santa, then I’d need to find a different mall with a Santa that I wanted. > > Since the specific call to action in the article is a boycott of the mall, is what I described not essentially a boycott? > > But to be clear: > > - The mall has the right to hire whatever Santas it wants to hire. > - I’m not interested in punishing the mall for their black Santa, it’s just not the “service” I would want to “buy.” > - People have the right to go to whatever mall they like and I fully endorse finding the Santa you want to take a picture of. > - I have no interest in convince other people not to go to the mall. > - I have no argument about purity or qualities of the races or anything else. Santa is a prop for a specific scene and in my mind that scene needs to meet certain visual criteria. This is an incredibly large mall with more than one Santa. And no, what you describe is not a boycott, unless you’re saying you wouldn’t shop at that mall. Further, you’re not advocating for anyone else to avoid this Santa or this mall. They are calling for a boycott of the mall, and urging others to do so. That’s incredibly different. Do you oppose such a boycott? If so, then you don’t appear, in any way, to see the point of the racists, and I wonder why you said you did. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/78 "2016-12-06T23:30:09Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > What’s your stance on elves? > > It pisses me off to see elves who, although short, are not true dwarfs (or is it dwarves?). Not to mention the 6’+ elves that self-identify as short. I know, I know, check my privilege. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/79 "2016-12-07T00:18:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is an incredibly large mall with more than one Santa. And no, what you describe is not a boycott, unless you’re saying you wouldn’t shop at that mall. Further, you’re not advocating for anyone else to avoid this Santa or this mall. They are calling for a boycott of the mall, and urging others to do so. That’s incredibly different. Do you oppose such a boycott? If so, then you don’t appear, in any way, to see the point of the racists, and I wonder why you said you did. Not to belabor the point or speak for **dracoi** , but this is why I chimed in when his opinion was called disgusting and it was implied that he’s a racist. From what he said (and not what I could possibly ascribe to him) he’s saying he has a certain picture in his mind of the Santa character and that image follows “the traditional one”. I didn’t get the sense that he was eschewing there being a Santa of color. But isn’t it nice that we can have this conversation?😕 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/80 "2016-12-07T00:28:13Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > Not to belabor the point or speak for **dracoi** , but this is why I chimed in when his opinion was called disgusting and it was implied that he’s a racist. From what he said (and not what I could possibly ascribe to him) he’s saying he has a certain picture in his mind of the Santa character and that image follows “the traditional one”. I didn’t get the sense that he was eschewing there being a Santa of color. But isn’t it nice that we can have this conversation?😕 If he hadn’t said “I can see the point of the racists”, then the criticism probably wouldn’t have been as harsh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864.md?page=5)