# Mall of American hires a black Santa; racist come out of the woodwork **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 4, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864 "2016-12-04T20:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/81 "2016-12-07T01:07:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If he hadn’t said “I can see the point of the racists”, then the criticism probably wouldn’t have been as harsh. Agreed. Jeez, **dracoi** , you need a copy editor dude (or chick) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/82 "2016-12-07T01:58:53Z")
Didn’t the fat white bearded male Santa idea come from a series of Coca-Cola Christmas ads in the post-Civil War South? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/83 "2016-12-07T02:34:44Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Didn’t the fat white bearded male Santa idea come from a series of Coca-Cola Christmas ads in the post-Civil War South? More recently than that. The Coke ads made their debut in 1931. [http://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/coke-lore-santa-claus](http://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/coke-lore-santa-claus) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/84 "2016-12-07T06:29:32Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Well, Morgan Freeman played a better God than God. So black is cool for Santa IMHO. His god pales in comparison to that of Alanis Morissette. I mean, _that voice_. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/85 "2016-12-07T11:41:24Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > More recently than that. The Coke ads made their debut in 1931. > > [http://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/coke-lore-santa-claus](http://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/coke-lore-santa-claus) But images of St. Nicholas/Father Christmas as an old, usually bearded, white guy are centuries older than that. See the bottom of [this page](http://hypnogoria.blogspot.co.nz/2015_12_01_archive.html) for images as old as the 17th century. Another (though way lesser) annoying thing about the “white Santa” racists is how blithely they disregard some aspects of the traditional Santa image while demanding that others be rigorously adhered to. The traditional Santa is a “right jolly old **elf** ” in a **miniature** sleigh, and early images correspondingly showed him as two or three feet tall. But is anyone complaining that mall Santas are destroying Santa’s iconic image by representing him as a fully grown adult male human? Not a peep. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/86 "2016-12-07T13:33:48Z")
Just to play devil’s advocate on Dracoi’s position…So, what if you took your kids to the mall and it was a female Santa? Would you be disappointed that the Santa didn’t meet your expectations about what Santa should be? ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/87 "2016-12-07T15:16:34Z")
Does she wear the beard well? ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/88 "2016-12-07T17:38:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If he hadn’t said “I can see the point of the racists”, then the criticism probably wouldn’t have been as harsh. Well, I think I thought the rest of the paragraph would make it clear which points I was agreeing with, though I see how it could be read it as some kind of complete agreement with them. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/89 "2016-12-07T17:48:00Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But images of St. Nicholas/Father Christmas as an old, usually bearded, white guy are centuries older than that. See the bottom of [this page](http://hypnogoria.blogspot.co.nz/2015_12_01_archive.html) for images as old as the 17th century. > > Another (though way lesser) annoying thing about the “white Santa” racists is how blithely they disregard some aspects of the traditional Santa image while demanding that others be rigorously adhered to. The traditional Santa is a “right jolly old **elf** ” in a **miniature** sleigh, and early images correspondingly showed him as two or three feet tall. > > But is anyone complaining that mall Santas are destroying Santa’s iconic image by representing him as a fully grown adult male human? Not a peep. Well, I meant the Coke ads debuted more recently than the post Civil War Reconstruction period, although the ads were based in part on Clement Clarke Moore’s description of Saint Nick in “T’was the Night Before Christmas.” ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/90 "2016-12-07T17:57:07Z")
[There’s Another Santa Claus.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW4IS06Xo1I&app=desktop) ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/91 "2016-12-07T18:07:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whether true or not, why would never interacting with them be the right thing to do? Agreed, but never interacting with a **Drunky Smurf** could possibly be the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/92 "2016-12-07T18:13:14Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Agreed, but never interacting with a **Drunky Smurf** could possibly be the right thing to do. You’re probably right. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/93 "2016-12-07T18:59:20Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Well, I think I thought the rest of the paragraph would make it clear which points I was agreeing with It didn’t, largely because you said this: > [@dracoi](#): > > When the only point of the exercise is symbolism, you kind of have to get the symbolism right. That comes across as pretty prescriptive. That’s not just saying _“Well I personally would prefer to visit a white Santa just because that corresponds better to my personal image of the Santa archetype, but if there are nonwhite Santas too it’s NBD”_. On the contrary, your statement implies that Santas **in general** are **supposed** to be white because that’s part of the objectively **correct** symbolism for Santa. When you say that sort of thing in conjunction with declaring that you can “see the point of the racists” in objecting to nonwhite Santas, you do come across as sounding somewhat racist yourself. We get it that that’s not what you meant, but it is definitely suggested by what you said. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/94 "2016-12-07T20:17:07Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > So, what if you took your kids to the mall and it was a female Santa? If she’s black, I’d avoid any “ho ho ho” references. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/95 "2016-12-07T20:48:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If she’s black, I’d avoid any “ho ho ho” references. > > Regards, > Shodan B/c only black women get called ho or whore? ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/96 "2016-12-07T23:39:12Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I don’t want to pretend like I’m too good to partake in a little RO every once in a while, but can I just take this moment to rant against this tired and lazy content production from garbage outlets like rawstory? This is exactly the same as the “people are saying” segments on Fox News. > > Step 1) Something boring happens that 99.9% of the country doesn’t care about > Step 2) Lazy journalist spends 10 minutes gathering up 6 examples of outrage from the .1% that does care, or at least is pretending to care to get a rise out of people > Step 3) Categorize this small minority with the most overly broad descriptor they can get away with > Step 4) Profit, literally > We get it, internet commenters are trolls and say racist things. That doesn’t make it news. I have to agree. Oooh look, there are racists on facebook and twitter! Unfortunately, I’m seeing more and more of exactly this kind of article. Paying attention to them just emboldens them. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/97 "2016-12-08T01:51:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whether true or not, why would never interacting with them be the right thing to do? My mother’s side of family is in a northern plains state. Some of them are incredibly racist but you can’t pick your family. One of them told me, a guy who lives in the mid-Atlantic, that their Indians were like our black people out East. SMH. These are the people who voted for Trump. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What’s wrong with calling out when people say racist/homophobic/misogynistic/bigoted things? I do call them out. I don’t need to hear their small-minded shit. Christ, some of them don’t believe in evolution and take the Bible literally. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/98 "2016-12-08T04:09:15Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > B/c only black women get called ho or whore? Hey, I too can remember the days when “ho” was an insult associated specifically with black women. **Shodan** is just a little behind the times on “ho” now being a race-neutral misogynistic slur. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/99 "2016-12-08T04:12:09Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > a guy who lives in the mid-Atlantic 🙂 I understand what you meant but golly, residence in, say, Iceland is actually looking rather appealing these days. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864/100 "2016-12-08T04:27:02Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > 🙂 I understand what you meant but golly, residence in, say, Iceland is actually looking rather appealing these days. Well, you seem a moron. Where did I advocate a anything? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-of-american-hires-a-black-santa-racist-come-out-of-the-woodwork/773864.md?page=6)