# Mall seizes shirts from vendor to please other businesses. In what way is this legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740 "2009-12-18T15:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/21 "2009-12-18T19:03:00Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > But generally enforcing a contract is something for the courts to do. If I violate my rental agreement, my landlord can evict me. He cannot show up at my apartment and start carrying my stuff out onto the street. Comparing a residential landlord/tenant agreement to a commercial one is dangerous. Residential leases have lots of legal protections for the tenant built in that a commercial tenant doesn’t have. A better example might be - if you stapled hardcore pornography to your outside door, the landlord would probably be within his rights in just removing it, and not getting the courts to force you to remove it. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/22 "2009-12-18T20:01:58Z")
Its just typical of Dallas, believe me. I am so happy that I no longer live in that hellhole. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/23 "2009-12-18T20:26:03Z")
It’s typical of Chambers of Commerce types. All they’ve done is call attention to the negative image they say they’re fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/24 "2009-12-18T20:32:30Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Comparing a residential landlord/tenant agreement to a commercial one is dangerous. Residential leases have lots of legal protections for the tenant built in that a commercial tenant doesn’t have. A better example might be - if you stapled hardcore pornography to your outside door, the landlord would probably be within his rights in just removing it, and not getting the courts to force you to remove it. I’m actually not so sure of that, if your outside door is not a common area of the leased property this has nothing to do with the lack of legal protections for a commercial lessee. generally, parties who suffer from a breach of contract can’t remedy the situation themselves. the proper way to get a breaching party to stop what they’re doing is to a) ask or b) seek injunctive relief, in that order. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/25 "2009-12-18T20:36:23Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > Its just typical of Dallas, believe me. I am so happy that I no longer live in that hellhole. I’d like to see that lease agreement. I wonder if a standard one allows a mall to ban any merchandise for any reason whatsoever. The shirts in question were not obscene and did not insult any person or persons - just the town, which seems to have had some problems. I only looked at some of the comments, but it appears one poster brought up generic free speech issues, got called a liberal, and denied it. If this is standard for Dallas, I don’t blame you. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/26 "2009-12-18T20:39:05Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > "Four years ago, a kiosk vendor was kicked out of Valley View Center for selling a shirt with a nearly identical image – another body in a trunk, in a slightly different style. " > > I am guessing that, based on the earlier case, the police and mall were both pretty sure they had a legal standing before they acted. > > And since we already ban things because we basically just don’t like them, I don’t expect to see any real end to stories like this. The police were not involved in this case, and it is not clear they were involved in the other case. If the vendor didn’t sue, there is no way to know what the legal standing actually is. Judging from the article, I wouldn’t trust the Chamber of Commerce or the mall owners to respect any rights at all. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/27 "2009-12-18T21:40:18Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The shirts in question were not obscene and did not insult any person or persons - just the town, which seems to have had some problems. That’s putting it mildly. I grew up in Pleasant Grove and it’s anything but. The very first money I made from my art was from T-shirts referring to Pleasant Grove - that was in about '79. It was a stylized Mickey Mouse with the words “Grove Rat” underneath (Grove Rats being what people from The Grove are called). I couldn’t silk-screen them fast enough. Eventually they were officially banned from schools in Dallas. Pleasant Grove was a very tough place in the late 70’s and the last time I was in Dallas it didn’t seem any better - worse in fact. None of this has anything to do with the OP, but knowing PG as I do makes this much more of a non-story. Typical Dallas BS. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/28 "2009-12-18T21:41:39Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > I don’t know the facts of the case entirely, but I’m not entirely sure that, even with a private agreement between two parties, the aggrieved party can self-help their way into a confiscation of someone’s property because of a contract breach. I believe that repair shops can legaly hold your car if you refuse to pay until the issue is resolved. Same with hotels, they can hold your luggage if you don’t pay. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/29 "2009-12-18T21:59:59Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > I believe that repair shops can legaly hold your car if you refuse to pay until the issue is resolved. Same with hotels, they can hold your luggage if you don’t pay. Both of those are called ‘leins’ and they are in the agreement you sign when you do either of those tasks - while they can keep it as security, they cant do anything with it without assistance from the courts. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/30 "2009-12-18T22:14:32Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > I believe that repair shops can legaly hold your car if you refuse to pay until the issue is resolved. Same with hotels, they can hold your luggage if you don’t pay. to add onto **simster** ’s analysis, most mechanic’s liens and innkeeper’s liens are creatures of statute. In such statutes, the State gives the lienholder the power to self-help, without resort to the courts (same thing for repossessions of certain secured assets, too) See, for example: [(770 ILCS 40/) Innkeepers Lien Act.](http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2250&ChapAct=770%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B40%2F&ChapterID=63&ChapterName=LIENS&ActName=Innkeepers+Lien+Act.) [(770 ILCS 60/) Mechanics Lien Act.](http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2254&ChapAct=770%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B60%2F&ChapterID=63&ChapterName=LIENS&ActName=Mechanics+Lien+Act.) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/31 "2009-12-19T00:10:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It’s typical of Chambers of Commerce types. > > All they’ve done is call attention to the negative image they say they’re fighting. Now people in other countries, who never heard of Pleasant Grove or its Chamber of Commerce before, have a negative image of it. Way to go, boosters! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/32 "2009-12-19T00:32:21Z")
Perhaps now that they have some shelf space available, I can talk them into selling my line of custom dildos. What could possibly go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/33 "2009-12-19T00:38:21Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Perhaps now that they have some shelf space available, I can talk them into selling my line of custom dildos. What could possibly go wrong? IIRC, one may sell sex toys in Texas only if they are clearly labeled as being instructional devices. Law may have changed but if it did, it probably changed for the worse. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/34 "2009-12-19T00:43:41Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > IIRC, one may sell sex toys in Texas only if they are clearly labeled as being instructional devices. Law may have changed but if it did, it probably changed for the worse. “Following our extensively-illustrated manual, learn the many uses of the BFD-3000…” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/35 "2009-12-19T01:06:44Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > IIRC, one may sell sex toys in Texas only if they are clearly labeled as being instructional devices. Law may have changed but if it did, it probably changed for the worse. Instructional devices? GREAT! I can sell the accompanying illustrated publication _1001 Uses for a Texas-Sized Dick_. Who could object with _Texas_ in the very title? AND, the various models will be named after famous Texans and Texas landmarks. The _Slammin’ Sam Houston_! You’ll never forget THIS _Alamo_! ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/36 "2009-12-19T01:13:22Z")
Thanks a lot for bringing dildos into this. Please drop the subject for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/37 "2009-12-19T01:17:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The police were not involved in this case, and it is not clear they were involved in the other case. If the vendor didn’t sue, there is no way to know what the legal standing actually is. Judging from the article, I wouldn’t trust the Chamber of Commerce or the mall owners to respect any rights at all. I don’t trust much of anyone to respect any rights these days. And maybe the courts would stand for freedom; but don’t bet on it unless Vegas is giving really good odds. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/38 "2009-12-19T01:22:58Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > Thanks a lot for bringing dildos into this. > > Please drop the subject for this thread. Sorry, I just now realized this was in GQ, and my coments were inappropriate for this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/39 "2009-12-19T02:41:39Z")
I would expect mall security would remove the t-shirts from the mall, not seize them. I’d guess that the reason for the seizure is to increase the chance that the fine will be paid – just plain wanting someone else’s money is much better protected if you’re a corporation than if you’re an individual. However, my ability to argue rationally about this story is severely degraded by the following salient fact: > [@](#): > > “They’ve all been confiscated,” the mall’s community-relations director, **Debbie Screws** , said afterward. The woman is in public relations. Her name is Debbie Screws. In _ **Dallas** _. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/40 "2009-12-19T22:29:01Z")
Love the fact that the protesting store owner quoted in the story runs a pawn shop. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740.md?page=3)