# Mall seizes shirts from vendor to please other businesses. In what way is this legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740 "2009-12-18T15:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WhyWhyWhy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whywhywhy/32/7539_2.png) [@WhyWhyWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyWhyWhy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/41 "2009-12-20T01:33:28Z")
> [@](#): > > The woman is in public relations. Her name is Debbie Screws. In Dallas. Hahahahah…even South Park would be proud of that one. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/42 "2009-12-20T02:09:22Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > [T-shirts seized from Town East Mall after Pleasant Grove business owners protest](http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/121809dnmetpleasant.3c17082.html) Totally off topic question, but I’ve seen you do this several times. Why do you take the time to colour your links blue? ---
**Author:** ![Dandmb50](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ba9def/32.png) [@Dandmb50](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandmb50)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/43 "2009-12-20T02:28:57Z")
I don’t like high heels and I am a guy and think women shouldn’t wear them either. So can I go into a mall and say they can’t wear them since they make women’s feet all screwed up? And I don’t like baseball caps either can we shut down people in malls who sell baseball caps? It’s distasteful yes, but you either have freedom of speech or you don’t. I would say have him stop selling the t-shirts but just taking them is not right. It will be interesting to see what the owner of the kiosk does and what his contract with the mall says. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/44 "2009-12-20T02:48:19Z")
Its very unlikely that the lease and Texas law allow the lessor to conduct a surprise raid on the lessee, enter the premises and seize personal property. It wouldn’t fly in California. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/45 "2009-12-20T02:59:07Z")
Well, that’s not really what happened, and if there are two states with more divergent approaches to the law than Texas and California, I’d be hard pressed to name them. The shirts were on sale at a kiosk, so it’s not like there were any premises to enter. The mall management walked to another part of the premises that they managed and seized the t-shirts. I agree that there may be a legal issue with actually taking possession of the shirts. But the kiosk owner may actually have preferred that to other things the owner could perhaps have done, such as terminating the lease. Since none of us know the Ts & Cs of the lease, it’s all speculation. I don’t see the huge issue. If you are ever rich enough to own a shopping mall, and someone is selling something that you believe is overall detrimental to your business running the mall, do you want the government to make you continue to lease your space to that person? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/46 "2009-12-20T03:26:47Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:42, topic:521740”] Totally off topic question, but I’ve seen you do this several times. Why do you take the time to colour your links blue? [/QUOTE] I try to make all my links colored so they stand out. It’s better for a person that has problems focusing on the thread mentally and eyesight wise. I’ve been that person in the past and sometimes now. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/47 "2009-12-20T03:55:28Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > I try to make all my links colored so they stand out. It’s better for a person that has problems focusing on the thread mentally and eyesight wise. I’ve been that person in the past and sometimes now. The links will be blue automatically by default though. Example ---
**Author:** ![Dandmb50](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ba9def/32.png) [@Dandmb50](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandmb50)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/48 "2009-12-20T05:03:26Z")
Hey I didn’t know that? [LINK HERE](http://disney.com) I’ve always been typing out the HTML code. Great, now I can just add the links so easily. Wow you always learn something on here. I’m glad too that they are BLUE. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/49 "2009-12-20T05:42:30Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#): > > I don’t see the huge issue. If you are ever rich enough to own a shopping mall, and someone is selling something that you believe is overall detrimental to your business running the mall, do you want the government to make you continue to lease your space to that person? I would want the government to enforce a contract. I also would not want a rich liberal mall owner to forbid the sale of National Review at a newstand and a rich Christian mall owner forbidding the sale of Skeptical Inquirer. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/50 "2009-12-20T06:20:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I would want the government to enforce a contract. I also would not want a rich liberal mall owner to forbid the sale of National Review at a newstand and a rich Christian mall owner forbidding the sale of Skeptical Inquirer. Sure - but if the contract that the tenant signed has said that they will not sell either National Review or Skeptical Inquirer, and then the tenant does sell both, do you want the government (i.e. courts) to enforce the contract? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/51 "2009-12-20T12:59:02Z")
Could people practice their linking in about this About This Message Board as I wish to keep this thread as a discussion of the topic. The links added have nothing to do with this topic. Thank You ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/52 "2009-12-20T19:09:28Z")
And even more to the point, what if the objectionable item being sold was a t-shirt saying “This Mall Sucks” or “Buy Ugly Crap at This Mall”? It’s not political, it’s just something you believe is detrimental to your business. It actually wouldn’t surprise me if mall owners had fairly stringent requirements in contracts about what can be sold in kiosks. Maybe your malls are set up differently, but in the ones around here, the kiosks are very front and center to every shopper at the mall. It’s not like the edgy t-shirts at the back of Spencer’s gifts, where any customers who see them are probably looking for them. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/53 "2009-12-20T21:47:19Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > I’m actually not so sure of that, if your outside door is not a common area of the leased property > > this has nothing to do with the lack of legal protections for a commercial lessee. generally, parties who suffer from a breach of contract can’t remedy the situation themselves. the proper way to get a breaching party to stop what they’re doing is to a) ask or b) seek injunctive relief, in that order. But can the contract include a self-remedy? If there’s just a clause that says “Lessee will not sell items which landlord finds objectionable, such as…”, then yes, you’d have to get the courts involved if the lessee refused to stop selling the shirts. But what if the lease actually says “Lessee will not sell items which landlord finds objectionable. If they do so, landlord will provide notice and lesee will have xx days to remove items. If items are not removed, lessee agrees to allow landlord to remove such items. Landlord will return such items when a fine of $xx is paid.” Are you saying that such a self remedy clause would be unenforceable and illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/54 "2009-12-20T22:00:12Z")
commercial agreements can include self-remedies; might have some trouble with including a fine, though, since courts frown on penalty clauses in contracts. But if the fine were based on the cost of seizing the goods, storing them, and giving notice to the tenant, might be possible to enforce it in court. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/55 "2009-12-20T22:40:53Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > But can the contract include a self-remedy? If there’s just a clause that says “Lessee will not sell items which landlord finds objectionable, such as…”, then yes, you’d have to get the courts involved if the lessee refused to stop selling the shirts. But what if the lease actually says “Lessee will not sell items which landlord finds objectionable. If they do so, landlord will provide notice and lesee will have xx days to remove items. If items are not removed, lessee agrees to allow landlord to remove such items. Landlord will return such items when a fine of $xx is paid.” Are you saying that such a self remedy clause would be unenforceable and illegal? If you don’t want to adhere to that self-help pvovision (as the guy selling the t-shirts) you’re back to square one. it’s just a breach. it obviously changes the calculus of the breaching party/probabilities of them being found in violation of the contract, but still, I don’t think you won’t be able to enforce the self-help section ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/56 "2009-12-20T22:47:11Z")
Yeah, until five minutes ago I didn’t know that Pleasant Grove was a ghetto sort of place, but now I do. Good job, Chamber of Commerce! ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740/57 "2009-12-20T22:54:23Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Yeah, until five minutes ago I didn’t know that Pleasant Grove was a ghetto sort of place, but now I do. Good job, Chamber of Commerce! I lived in Dallas for a lot of years and I’ve never even heard of the place until now. I guess Fruitdale will be the next to go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-seizes-shirts-from-vendor-to-please-other-businesses-in-what-way-is-this-legal/521740.md?page=2)