# Mall-Wart is Satan Spawn-why continue to support this evil enterprise? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139 "2005-03-25T02:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ms\_Ann\_Thrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9a28c/32.png) [@Ms\_Ann\_Thrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Ann_Thrope)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/41 "2005-03-26T00:11:54Z")
Some time ago PBS aired a Frontline on Walmart called “Is Wal-Mart good for America?” I was fascinated by the company’s history, policies and overall POWER. It’s amazing and heartening to me to see how communities in Los Angeles and the Chicago area are (among others, I’m guessing) organizing to block Wal-Mart stores. I’ve never set foot in one, but it’s not an intentional boycott. Living in a large city, I have plenty of choices and shop at small independently owned stores whenever possible. Sometimes I pay a little more, but this is offset by the relationships I form with the owners and the service I receive. Link to Frontline program info with links to Wal-Mart history: [http://cecd.aers.psu.edu/pubs/Walmartbrief.htm](http://cecd.aers.psu.edu/pubs/Walmartbrief.htm) ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/42 "2005-03-26T00:23:05Z")
I have lived in a small town with mom and pop style businesses. The selection at those places sucked. It was nice when some of the big chains finally started putting stores in. There is a line between supporting the local businesses and being taken advantage of by the local businesses. A lot of local businesses I have seen are on the screwing me over side of that line. ---
**Author:** ![Corii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Corii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/43 "2005-03-26T00:29:48Z")
I prefer not to give my business to Wal-Mart, and I feel lucky because I don’t have to. The closest Wal-Mart to me is about 15 miles away, while the grocery store is across the street, and the mall, Target and Ross are a 10 minute bus ride away. We have a nice little “downtown” area full of small business stores that seem to do quite well, though the only one I regularly patronize is the art store. I think it’s perfectly fine to boycott a business for whatever reason (put your money where you mouth is, as it were), or even organize a reasonable protest or group boycott. In fact, I’d probably think less of someone’s complaints about Wal-Mart, or Target or whatever if the person continued to shop there while continually bashing the place. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/44 "2005-03-26T01:03:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I shop at Wal-Mart because they have more stuff for less money. > > If the OP wishes me to stop, I’ll be happy to: just agree to refund to me the difference in price between Wal-Mart and whatever other venue the OP wishes me to use, and I’ll switch immediately. > > Not willing to do that? Then I’m not willing to switch. Do you have any ethics in regards to where you spend your money? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/45 "2005-03-26T01:19:09Z")
I’ll go to Wal-Mart occasionally, and sometimes I’ll even hold my nose and shop there. But every time I do, I hate myself, not even because I hate their business practices-but because their stuff SUCKS. I hate the organization, the layout, the crap they sell. And my own local Wal-Mart seems to attract every Dale Earnart worshipping mullets and mallclaw sporting troglodyte in the tri-state area. _shudder_ ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/46 "2005-03-26T01:25:37Z")
Wal-Mart could cap the salaries of execs at $60k/yr and give every penny of profit to local Chambers of Commerce to disburse to local retailers based on percentage of income in each county and we’d still have these threads. Wal-Mart is doing the same as Target and K-Mart but we don’t see these on a regular basis. (There, go ahead and flame me once again for not bashing a company that is doing some good for Americans. I don’t know of a single business in this city that folded because of them.) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/47 "2005-03-26T01:44:14Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > 2 litre bottle of Diet Dr Thunder for .58 cents. > > 'Nuff said. Iwould like to re-iterate this point. My wife is a slave to this stuff. Were it not for the hated Wal\*mart, I would be spending an extra $.75 a bottle for diet Dr Pepper. At six bottles a week, it adds up fast. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/48 "2005-03-26T01:54:25Z")
My apologies that the link didn’t work-it works for me, probably because the cookies are set. From the Fast Company April 2005 issue: > [@](#): > > Pulling Punches > CEO Lee Scott went on the record to fight Wal-Mart’s bad rep. But his PR effort hit the mat. > From: Issue 93 | April 2005 | Page 31 By: Chuck Salter > Lee Scott > President and CEO of Wal-Mart > January 2005 > PR blitz > > On January 13, millions of Americans opened their morning papers to find a full-page ad declaring, “Wal-Mart is working for everyone,” and signed by Lee Scott, the company’s CEO. The same day, Scott appeared on Good Morning America, Fox News, and CNBC – trifecta! – staying determinedly on message: Contrary to what its detractors claim, Wal-Mart treats workers well and is good for communities. > For most of its 43 years, Wal-Mart has been notoriously tight-lipped. But facing criticism of its labor practices, a pending gender-discrimination class-action suit, and general angst over offshoring of manufacturing, the world’s largest retailer decided to hit back. It launched a media blitz with all the subtlety of a Don King press conference. > The spinning was enough to induce vertigo. Scott called the company’s carefully orchestrated PR campaign “an outreach.” This particular outreach wasn’t about defending Wal-Mart, he said, just setting the record straight. With facts. “Real facts about Wal-Mart as a place to work,” the ad read. > The whirlwind tour was meant to humanize the low-cost leviathan so often depicted as self-serving and ruthlessly pragmatic. But Scott didn’t pull it off. On-screen he was reserved and careful, like someone well coached by the fellas from legal. His gaze was flat, his smile thin and forced. His low-key manner in the face of critical allegations came off as dispassionate and, well, kinda mean. > Scott kept promising to tell the real story and provide the real facts. But from one interview to the next, it became clear that the retailer only wanted to tell part of the story and share certain facts. When asked on Good Morning America how much Wal-Mart imports from China, Scott said he didn’t know. Coming from a company known for tracking practically everything, the dodge sounded absurd. > So, fine: Let’s check out the real facts. Wal-Mart says it plans to create 100,000 new jobs in the United States this year. But where will these jobs come from? Most likely from new stores – which will just cannibalize other retailers and put their employees out of jobs. See how Wal-Mart works for everyone? > Wal-Mart’s ads also trumpet its workers’ average pay: nearly twice the federal minimum! Specifically, it’s $9.68 an hour. Given Wal-Mart’s 34-hour workweek, that, less health premiums and federal taxes, comes out to about $1,200 per month. Before bragging about the pay, Scott might try living on it. > Wal-Mart was right to open its kimono. But ultimately, the campaign failed to give consumers and critics reason to feel differently about the company. Instead of quelling controversy, it fanned the flames. It reeked of damage control and proved only that Wal-Mart is as bad at PR as it is good at selling diapers cheap. Scott would have done better spending all that ad money on his employees. That’s how you work for everyone. FWIW, I do put my money where my mouth is-I won’t shop there, period. I’d rather support other businesses who offer employees a better wage, don’t have draconian practices, and care more about people than the bottom line. As a small business owner, these are more than idle phrases, they’re core principles. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/49 "2005-03-26T02:15:19Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Wal-Mart could cap the salaries of execs at $60k/yr and give every penny of profit to local Chambers of Commerce to disburse to local retailers based on percentage of income in each county and we’d still have these threads. That’s an absolutely absurd statement. > [@](#): > > (There, go ahead and flame me once again for not bashing a company that is doing some good for Americans. I don’t know of a single business in this city that folded because of them.) :rolleyes: I’ll not flame you; I think Wal-Mart is a good example of capitalism in action. As per my understanding, their inventory control and automation is _way_ better than what other companies have. They also use volume to leverage against price. They do it better and get rewarded for it. At the same time, their hiring and scheduling practices (again, as per my understanding of them) are unethical (34 hour workweeks to avoid paying benefits, sexual discrimination suits, “time shifting”, expecting employees to work until a job is done even if it means working off the clock, etc.). Yes, they “do some good for Americans”. So does a company that sells cheap products but dumps toxic waste byproducts of manufacture illegally (taking it extreme just to make my point). The mounting evidence is that Wal-Mart falls on the side of hurting more than helping. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/50 "2005-03-26T02:18:24Z")
Um, **danceswithcats**? Your cite used Fox News as one of the “trifecta” cites. I can only assume the sun will rise in the west tomorrow. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/51 "2005-03-26T02:27:51Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Um, **danceswithcats**? Your cite used Fox News as one of the “trifecta” cites. > > I can only assume the sun will rise in the west tomorrow. :eek: Wal-Mart hate is pretty equal among political bents and usually the same reasons are given. Lots of Fox viewers, Bush voters, supporters of Terry Schiavo’s parents, gun owners, etc. have the same irrational Wal Mart hate expressed by the left. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/52 "2005-03-26T02:31:57Z")
You know, I work exclusively with small businesses, and I still think threads like this are nothing more than so much jealous bullshit. WalMart gets slammed because they are successful at what they do. When something is number 1 it’s always got a target painted on it’s back. Where I come from success in business is to be admired and emulated, not criticized and condemned. They provide decent quality merchandise at good prices-and as an added bonus they keep the unions out-why shouldn’t I shop there? ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/53 "2005-03-26T04:29:59Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Two recent articles: [this Mall-Wart “disclosure” article is laughable](http://www.fastcompany.com/subscr/93/pr.html) and in addition, a study by [Penn State](http://cecd.aers.psu.edu/pubs/Walmartbrief.htm) indicated that the presence of a Mall-Wart store adversely affected poverty rates. Except just looking at raw income figures isn’t very helpful. What matters more to poverty level is the purchasing power. If Walmart moving into town means on average everyone’s income goes down by 10% but the average price of goods goes down 13%, then Walmart has improved the living standards of that community. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/54 "2005-03-26T04:35:34Z")
> [@Queen Tonya](#): > > 2 third world sweatshop workers making .58 cents a day. > > 'Nuff said. So, instead, I should buy local and have those two sweatshop workers get laid off, starve and die? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/55 "2005-03-26T14:36:40Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Do you have any ethics in regards to where you spend your money? No. Because the small amount of money I spend will not make any difference to either punish or reward one retailer or another. I will happily save a dollar on a box of cereal and not worry about any potential evil that the company is up to. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/56 "2005-03-26T15:12:26Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > So, instead, I should buy local and have those two sweatshop workers get laid off, starve and die? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/57 "2005-03-26T15:29:13Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Do you have any ethics in regards to where you spend your money? Of course. I don’t commit crimes by spending my money. I don’t patronize those that act immorally, to the extent I can discern it. None of which prevents me, or millions of other Americans, from shopping at Wal-Mart. ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/58 "2005-03-26T17:07:34Z")
Or saving money there might just cost you money elsewhere. [Motley Fool Wal-Mart article link](http://netscape.fool.com/news/mft/2005/mft05031101.htm?logvisit=y&npu=y&source=eptnetlnk308100&bounce=y&bounce2=y) ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/59 "2005-03-26T17:42:35Z")
Most people who shop there don’t _want_ to. I despise their corporate politics, and would rather support small places. I try to buy groceries at Whole Foods or Trader Joes, and I try to buy Other Things at non-big-box stores. But the bus stops right in front of Wal-Mart, they’ve got cheap clothes, and while their ramen isn’t as healthy as the stuff I get at Trader Joes, it’s 10 cents/pack, rather than 30. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139/60 "2005-03-26T18:14:22Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Most people who shop there don’t _want_ to. I despise their corporate politics, and would rather support small places. I try to buy groceries at Whole Foods or Trader Joes, and I try to buy Other Things at non-big-box stores. But the bus stops right in front of Wal-Mart, they’ve got cheap clothes, and while their ramen isn’t as healthy as the stuff I get at Trader Joes, it’s 10 cents/pack, rather than 30. Thirty cents a pack for Ramen? That’s a little crazy. My local convenience store (attached to the gas station) sells Ramen in six-packs for a dollar. Have you tried looking at one of those places? Really, it makes no sense at all for economic conservatives to be pro-Walmart. Walmart workers cost American taxpayers millions every year in food stamps, housing assistance, and federal medical care, none of which they would be utilizing if they were paid a decent wage. Every time you shop at Walmart, that’s just redistributing more money to the federal government. But I guess cheapness and irrational union hatred know no bounds. What do people who support Walmart’s wage scheme and oppose social welfare programs expect Walmart workers to do? The money for these people to live has to come from somewhere. Would you rather pay less at the store, but have more of your taxes go to welfare, or pay more at the store and have fewer people on welfare? I guess the first option affords more opportunity for judgement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mall-wart-is-satan-spawn-why-continue-to-support-this-evil-enterprise/296139.md?page=4)