# Mallard Fillmore on "Forte" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878 "2005-11-13T19:20:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/1 "2005-11-13T19:20:24Z")
In today’s comics section, Mallard Fillmore lectures his reading audience on the topic of the word “Forte.” He says that when used to mean “strong suit” (“Music’s not my forte…”) it should be pronounced “fort,” not “fortay.” I’ve never heard this usage before. I’ve always heard it pronounced “fortay” with the stress on the second syllable. In music, I’ve always heard it pronounced “fortay” with the stress on the first syllable. Am I an ignorant dufus? Have I been saying it wrong? (Of course, I only say it when I want to affect a joking tone of “putting on airs” so it doesn’t really matter…) This may be an IMHO question, but I was hoping for a factual answer of some sort. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/2 "2005-11-13T19:23:41Z")
This has cropped up before, and it’s certainly an IMHO issue. The only place I’ve ever heard of any pronunciation other than ‘for-tay’ is on these boards. Other people will swear blind that this usage is unbearably pretentious. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/3 "2005-11-13T19:25:40Z")
I would caution one against taking grammar or pronunciation tips from a conservative duck. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/4 "2005-11-13T19:27:18Z")
Oh, forgot the links to some other threads that have talked about this: > **[Other words like forte?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=314004)** > > The pronounciation of forte is rather unusual. Here’s the dictionary’s take on it: Are there other words that could have the bolded bit in the quote apply? > **[WrongSpeak on the Air](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=44510)** > > One of my pet peeves is newspeople’s mispronunciation of words on a regular basis. I mean, they earn a living with language, you’d think they’d know better. My favorite is “pre-nuptial” pronounced “pre-nup-choo-al,” as if there were a “U” instead of... ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/5 "2005-11-13T19:27:20Z")
[dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) does say this, however: > [@](#): > > The word forte, coming from French fort, should properly be pronounced with one syllable, like the English word fort. Common usage, however, prefers the two-syllable pronunciation, (fôrt), which has been influenced possibly by the music term forte borrowed from Italian. In a recent survey a strong majority of the Usage Panel, 74 percent, preferred the two-syllable pronunciation. The result is a delicate situation; speakers who are aware of the origin of the word may wish to continue to pronounce it as one syllable but at an increasing risk of puzzling their listeners. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/6 "2005-11-13T19:30:05Z")
Okay, thanks guys. I shoulda searched first. That’ll learn me. I agree the word is kind of pretentious, but then, I only ever hear it used when the speaker is sort of jokingly affecting a bit of pretense in the first place. It’s just that I’d never heard it pronounced “fort.” From now on, I shall continue to pronounce it with two syllables, but shall have arguments at the ready for this usage should anyone be silly enough to challenge me. (Like say, a talking duck.) -Kris ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/7 "2005-11-13T19:33:38Z")
Forte comes from the french word fort, which is pronounced “for”. So he has a point. The english pronunciation seems to have been [borrowed from italian.](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forte) ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/8 "2005-11-13T19:39:12Z")
What, no Jeopardy fans here? Alec always pronounces it properly. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/9 "2005-11-13T22:51:35Z")
Just remember that _neither_ proposed pronunciation matches the French, and the spelling doesn’t either. Clearly the Italian musical term (a cognate of the French word) has influenced usage in English. But to say that one is the original (and therefore “correct”) French pronunciation is false. I’d go with the prevailing usage; to do otherwise really does strike me as pretentious and silly. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/10 "2005-11-13T23:52:10Z")
_Forte_ is a term used in fencing, referring to the strong part of the blade. Like many other fencing terms, it undoubtedly came from French. I’ve never met a fencer who pronounced it in any way but “FOR-tay.” Of course, most of the fencers I know are from Texas. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/11 "2005-11-14T01:00:04Z")
My french is very rusty, but the feminine version of the word “fort” is “forte”, and I believe that it is pronounced “fort”. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/12 "2005-11-14T02:01:14Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > My french is very rusty, but the feminine version of the word “fort” is “forte”, and I believe that it is pronounced “fort”. Right, but the noun, in a phrase like “C’est pas mon fort”, is the masculine form, pronounced /foR/. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/13 "2005-11-14T02:32:02Z")
[Another post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5268126#post5268126) on the problems with French accents in the word in question. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/14 "2005-11-14T02:52:56Z")
According to the OED, the correct pronunciation is now fortay or fortei. “Fort” is listed as a former pronunciation. The origin, of course, is meaningless. The word is pronouced the way people pronounce it, and if it once was pronounced “fort,” but is no longer, that’s no more the correct pronunciation as pronouncing the “p” in “pneumonia” just because it once was pronounced that way. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/15 "2005-11-14T04:15:32Z")
" DICTIONARY, n. A malevolent literary device for cramping the growth of a language and making it hard and inelastic." ~ Ambrose Bierce ~ ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/16 "2005-11-14T04:36:42Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Right, but the noun, in a phrase like “C’est pas mon fort”, is the masculine form, pronounced /foR/. :smack: Right. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/17 "2005-11-14T05:02:45Z")
The Merriam-Webster _Collegiate_ has a long note on the pronunciation of “forte” when it means “strong point” and the like. > [@](#): > > In _forte_ we have a word derived from French which in its “strong point” sense has no entirely satisfactory pronunciation. Usage writers have denigrated “fortay” because they reflect the influence of the Italian derived _forte_. Their recommended pronunciation “fort” does not exactly French either: the French would write it “le fort” and pronounce it “luh for.” So you can take your pick knowing that someone somewhere will dislike whatever variant you choose. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/18 "2005-11-14T06:59:35Z")
George Carlin made the exact same rant in his book, _Brain Droppings_. Is Bruce Tinsley getting that desperate for ideas that he has to start plagiarizing? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/19 "2005-11-14T13:47:51Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > " DICTIONARY, n. A malevolent literary device for cramping the growth of a language and making it hard and inelastic." ~ Ambrose Bierce ~ In Bierce’s day, this was correct. But now it’s those who complain about descriptive grammar who are taking on the role. The OED is clearly documenting the change from “fort” to “fortay” as a pronunciation, whereas others are trying their damndest to hold back the change. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878/20 "2005-11-14T13:59:34Z")
> [@A.R. Cane](#): > > What, no Jeopardy fans here? Alec always pronounces it properly. But how does he pronounce “Alec”? 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mallard-fillmore-on-forte/330878.md?page=2)