# Malt Liquor and Cheap Wine Drunkenness **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 30, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307 "2010-05-30T18:17:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/21 "2010-06-01T20:00:44Z")
The column is misleading. Malt liquors are almost invariably bottom-fermented, since they are nothing but high-alcohol lagers. All lager beer uses bottom-fermenting yeasts. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/22 "2010-06-01T21:53:49Z")
There are different ways of fermenting. Top fermentation creates ale style beers, bottom fermentation creates lager style beers. Both ales and lagers are types of beer. Malt liquor is just a term for a particular style of beer–high alcohol, low hops, and large bottles. As always, it’s wikipedia FTW: [Malt liquor - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malt_liquor) ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/23 "2010-06-01T22:26:34Z")
Come On! You guys are just getting into distinctions without differences. Just give me my _ **Beer** _, damn it! I don’t give a shit how you _ **made** _ it! Just bottle and sell it, already! I will take care of the tasting and drinking, thank-you-very-much! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/24 "2010-06-01T22:53:06Z")
The price of purity is purists. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/25 "2010-06-01T23:33:24Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > An ounce of C2H5OH is an ounce of C2H5OH is an ounce of C2H5OH. How are you so sure of this in light of string theory and m-theory (matter extending beyond 3 dimensions)? ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/26 "2010-06-02T01:06:45Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > An ounce of C2H5OH is an ounce of C2H5OH is an ounce of C2H5OH. > [@kanicbird](#): > > How are you so sure of this in light of string theory and m-theory (matter extending beyond 3 dimensions)? I give you [307 Ale](http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/307_ale.htm). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/27 "2010-06-02T01:18:33Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > I give you [307 Ale](http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/307_ale.htm). What do they package that stuff in, a Klein bottle? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/28 "2010-06-02T03:08:43Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > […] How that affects the flavor, I have no idea - beer is yucky. You need to change your username. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/29 "2010-06-02T04:29:49Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > How that affects the flavor, I have no idea - beer is yucky.. > [@needscoffee](#): > > You need to change your username. he could be a whiskey drinker ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/30 "2010-06-02T10:19:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Tell that to the Guinness people. Roasted, **unmalted** barley is what gives stouts that beautiful flavor profile. It is nevertheless treated in a certain way. ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/31 "2010-06-02T11:59:05Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Does red (i.e. purple) grape juice have a similar effect? Have you tried drinking some other alcohol source and chasing it with red grape juice? I believe the tannin content is similar. Strange that you bring this up, because I didn’t recall it til you mentioned it, but I’m not a fan of grape juice b/c it makes my stomach hurt. Not like “I’m gonna vomit” hurt, but just…an unpleasant sourness in my tummy. I haven’t even tried grape juice in about fifteen years so I’d forgotten this til you mentioned it. I guess the red grape and I just aren’t meant to be together. ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/32 "2010-06-02T12:00:35Z")
I do like white grape juice though… ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/33 "2010-06-02T15:35:05Z")
> [@Audrey\_Levins](#): > > I guess the red grape and I just aren’t meant to be together. White wine is made from the same grapes as red. It’s the presence or absence of components from the skin (i.e., tannins) that differentiates them, IIRC. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/34 "2010-06-02T15:45:36Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > It is nevertheless treated in a certain way. Yeah, it’s roasted. I **am** an expert in beer matters. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/35 "2010-06-02T21:06:42Z")
**silenus** said: > [@](#): > > The column is misleading. Malt liquors are almost invariably bottom-fermented, since they are nothing but high-alcohol lagers. All lager beer uses bottom-fermenting yeasts. How is the column misleading? It does not mention lagers in any way - top or bottom. Do you think it is misleading merely because it ignores lagers? **needscoffee** said: > [@](#): > > You need to change your username. _You_ need to change your stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/36 "2010-06-03T00:17:46Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > How are you so sure of this in light of string theory and m-theory (matter extending beyond 3 dimensions)? Totally totally not, kanicbird. In fact, the cat may be in spirit state until I take a peek. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/37 "2010-06-03T00:38:04Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > **silenus** said: > > How is the column misleading? It does not mention lagers in any way - top or bottom. Do you think it is misleading merely because it ignores lagers? Given that malt liquors are lagers, and in the article they are being compared to ales, as if malt liquors were somehow special, then yes, I **do** thinks it’s misleading because it ignores lagers. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/38 "2010-06-03T20:13:03Z")
Doing some reading on wiki, I can see what you mean. No mention of the difference between malt liquor and common lagers is, at best, incomplete. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/39 "2010-06-03T20:25:49Z")
Then when you factor in things like Sam Adams **Utopias** , **Millennium** and other super-brews that are technically/legally malt liquors, but which are brewed with ale yeasts (among others) things get even more incomplete. All in all a rather misleading Staff Report. ---
**Author:** ![Kenyth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kenyth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenyth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307/40 "2010-06-04T15:04:54Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > There are different ways of fermenting. Top fermentation creates ale style beers, bottom fermentation creates lager style beers. Both ales and lagers are types of beer. Malt liquor is just a term for a particular style of beer–high alcohol, low hops, and large bottles. > > As always, it’s wikipedia FTW: [Malt liquor - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malt_liquor) As for the reason that the yeast is at the top or bottom depends on the yeast strain, but even more so on the fermentation temperature. Ale’s are fermented at room temp. Warm temperatures stimulate the yeast metabolism and reproduction. Rapidly mutiplying yeast flocculates together in clumps and retains bubbles of the CO2 it produces. Thus, it floats. Lagers are fermented at cooler temperatures. This affects the metabolism and reproduction of the yeast. The flavor is much mellower because less esters are produced. The yeast also stay on the bottom because they ferment slower, so less CO2 is produced in a given timeframe. Also, colder water can hold more dissolved CO2. Thus, they do not flocculate and become buoyant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/malt-liquor-and-cheap-wine-drunkenness/541307.md?page=1)