Malware

[crypto]

@Ed_Zotti

@Stink Fish Pot

I have never paid to post here on principle. When I couldn’t post, I went away. When I could, I came back. Most people who have been around know I’ve never asked to be sponsored, but there are others who like donating money to the boards, so I have on 2 occasions given permission for people to sponsor me if they so choose. With the problems for non-paying members, perhaps I should ask for someone to pay for me.

If I may ask, what is this principle that prevents you from paying? Subscribing at the moment is essentially voluntary; you seem to have no problem with the notion of people choosing to donate. Yet you don’t do it. If you honestly can’t afford it, I’ll take your word for it and hope your circumstances improve. But I’d hardly call that a principle.

Of course you may ask. First, however, an update. I have been away from the boards for quite a while, and I am happy to report my computer ran better when I wasn’t out here. This is just from my own user perspective. I have no documents or info printouts to back up my claim. I just stopped visiting the SDMB, cleaned things up, and my computer seemed to run like I expect it to. I have since changed a few things on my end to make my machine less invasion-friendly, but since this is my first visit back, I’ll hold off on proclaiming victory from the board beasties for now.

As far as my principle goes… I’ve been around the SDMB before the AOL days… I was a subscriber to the old usenet group that was out there long ago (I have no idea if it’s still around). So, my history is a fairly long one. Two things have troubled me about paying to post.

First, when this place went to PTP, there were a LOT of people who were willing to donate time, money, expertise, or whatever, to the SDMB and the board chose to decline all offers. Every one of them. This decision rubbed me the wrong way, because it is clear to me (and to others, I’m sure), that this place means a lot to many folks who post here. I never saw a reason why, for example, technical help could not have been accepted. Jerry appears to be overwhelmed, as much today as he was back then. There are more than a few folks out here that could have eased the work load on Jerry. I know there is a fear that an outsider could do harm to the system, but I doubt that would have been a problem. I’m sure a procedure could have been put in place to make sure anyone having access to the SDMB would be properly vetted. But this was never given serious consideration. I also recall that flat donations were ruled out (I’m not sure why), but I seem to remember people wanting to pony up more money than TPTB asked for, but again, this concept was rebuffed. Where is the SDMB now? Jerry is still overwhelmed, and the board is still scratching for money. One board I frequent has a donate button, that allows someone to donate any amount of money they want to the board. It sends the person to paypal. Why couldn’t this place have something similar?

The second reason is that this board’s existence is possible only because of us… The SDMB community. Without our posting, the board ceases to exist. The community provides all of the content to this board. Forcing folks to pay for the privilege to provide the content by which the board profits seems a bit strange to me. Especially considering the lack of interest shown by TPTB on the opinions, suggestions, etc. of that very community.

I believe the SDMB would have been much more successful if the “community” felt valued in some way. With a donation button, for example, one could donate any time they wanted and for any amount they wished. What’s the harm in that? TPTB don’t go out of their way to make people feel welcome or wanted. For the most part, I feel like we are tolerated, not embraced. It’s difficult for me to get excited about donating money to post to a board that treats its most valuable asset, its posting members, like a necessary evil instead of a valued, strategic partner.

[NineToTheSky]

Stink Fish Pot:

…cleaned things up…

This may be the relevant part.

You berate Ed for not allowing a ‘donate button’. You then say

Forcing folks to pay for the privilege to provide the content by which the board profits seems a bit strange to me.

You’re not being forced. You are a guest; you get full access (well, almost) to everything on the Dope. Because I don’t *have *to pay, I think of my subscription as a donation. Yet you have no objection to others paying (or ‘donating’) on your behalf.

I’m confused.

[BigT]

From what I remember, the problem with a donate button was always that, as a for-profit enterprise, this board cannot accept donations. Seeing as none of the other boards I’ve seen with donate buttons are for-profit enterprises, I find that a plausible explanation, even if i think it’s stupid that it has to be that way.

I do believe that the problem STP has is that you can’t pay the much higher price that is probably necessary to keep this board running sans rubicon ads.

I said before that I don’t want to be sponsored again if the ads thing is not fixed, but I’ve changed my mind if you do it just because you want to donate money to help with the problem. It is quite unlikely that I will be able to pay for my own subscription any time in the near future.

[Shot_From_Guns]

@BigT

From what I remember, the problem with a donate button was always that, as a for-profit enterprise, this board cannot accept donations.

Why can’t they just call it an optional variable fee?

[elbows]

Merchandise income under the most optimistic scenario will never come remotely close to replacing ad revenue.

I think this is demonstratively untrue. But it illustrates a big part of what’s wrong with the management of this board.

All efforts, by your board members, to get logo merchandise have been repeatedly and routinely shut down. Even when people offered to do all of the work, (design, production, sales, shipping, collection), and just send you the money. This is because your first forays into merchandise had designs selected by someone without the taste to recognize ‘hideous’ when they saw it. And until all of that hideous merchandise is gone, no one wants to entertain any other such venture. Pure hard headedness and stupidity, when people are begging for your logo on their t shirts.

It’s just not that hard to make money on merchandise. Metal bands do it, for Christ’s sake. But they don’t let the guys in the band/with no taste, pick the merchandise images.

Let’s have a little experiment, shall we?

Let’s say we have two tshirt designs available, (decent quality tshirts), (White, cream, grey), (Mens, ladies).
Shirt one: the masthead, smallish, over the left breast, “Cite, please!” on the back.
Shirt two: Large masthead on the centre front, same cite thing, on the back.
Just for shits and giggles let’s overprice these tshirts at say, $50 US.

I will definitely buy one, (we’ll just keep a tally of what we’re up to, okay?), and I can promise that at least one person will come and check out the website from seeing my shirt.

How long before a character on Big Bang Theory is sporting one? How many people would that bring to the site? How would that affect revenue?

More importantly, how is any of this difficult to understand?

[Dallas_Jones]

And then there are the custom T’s.

Like one that says Red Shirt on the front and Der Trihs on the back.

Nevermind.

[RaftPeople]

My T-Shirt/Coffee Mug suggestion:

  OOOOOOOO    
 O        O   
O [O]  [O] O  
O          O     I like DOPE!
O    o     O  
O          O  
O [_____]  O         Straight DOPE!
 O        O     
  OOOOOOOO    

[Shot_From_Guns]

Merchandise done right can be an *incredible *amount of income. It’s what funds the site I used to moderate for. Now, that site’s model is something that lends itself to a large variety of merchandise that people have a high desire to purchase, but that doesn’t mean it can’t work for The Straight Dope on a smaller scale. **elbows **hit the nail on the head: the current merch was chosen by people with no taste. Just because people don’t want to buy an ugly shirt doesn’t mean they won’t want to buy a stylish one, either.

RaftPeople, your design is hilarious.

[elbows]

I give up, RaftPeople, what the hell is it supposed to be? (it’s rendered as gibberish on my browser, how’s about a hint at least?)

[Shot_From_Guns]

@elbows

I give up, RaftPeople, what the hell is it supposed to be? (it’s rendered as gibberish on my browser, how’s about a hint at least?)

What on earth are you using, Netscape?

It’s a creepy ASCII face with a smile, and next to it are the lines “I like DOPE! Straight DOPE!”

[Irishman]

NineToTheSky said:

You berate Ed for not allowing a ‘donate button’. You then say

Forcing folks to pay for the privilege to provide the content by which the board profits seems a bit strange to me.

You’re not being forced. You are a guest; you get full access (well, almost) to everything on the Dope. Because I don’t *have *to pay, I think of my subscription as a donation. Yet you have no objection to others paying (or ‘donating’) on your behalf.

I’m confused.

Stink Fish Pot did not say that the board currently has pay to post. What he said was that several years ago, the board went Pay to post, and that rubbed him the wrong way. He did not mention that the board removed pay to post. For him, the ill will remains. Ergo, he does not wish to buy a membership when he does not feel that the board owners respect their membership. To him, it still feels like the pay to post situation. Ergo, he does not want to cooperate.

elbows said:

I give up, RaftPeople, what the hell is it supposed to be? (it’s rendered as gibberish on my browser, how’s about a hint at least?)

It is an ASCII smiley face and the slogan:

I like DOPE. Straight DOPE!

[elbows]

ASCII is greek to me, I am using firefox, and I still don’t see what’s supposed to be amusing about it.

A smiley face (of some sort) with I like Dope. Straight Dope.

Sorry, guess I’m dense or something, I’m just not seeing the amusement. Hardly witty repartee, in my opinion, but maybe it’s just me.

[Shot_From_Guns]

ASCII art = using characters to draw pictures.

And it’s funny because it’s terrible.

[RaftPeople]

@elbows

ASCII is greek to me,

And greek is ASCII to me.

I am using firefox, and I still don’t see what’s supposed to be amusing about it.

A smiley face (of some sort) with I like Dope. Straight Dope.

Sorry, guess I’m dense or something, I’m just not seeing the amusement. Hardly witty repartee, in my opinion, but maybe it’s just me.

That is exactly what I said about the Sistine Chapel - it’s a ceiling with some picture on it, whatever!
Actually a little context might help: it’s the same ascii image I was using as a fake avatar in the avatar threads.

[RaftPeople]

@Shot_From_Guns

ASCII art = using characters to draw pictures.

And it’s funny because it’s terrible.

Terrible, but with a hint of life oblivious to it’s own terribleness.

[Czarcasm]

ASCII- When an Etch-A-Scetch is just too hard to figure out.

[Shot_From_Guns]

@RaftPeople

Terrible, but with a hint of life oblivious to it’s own terribleness.

Exactly. It’s sort of a Poe’s Law thing–you could easily see someone submitting the same design in absolute seriousness.

[crypto]

@Irishman

Stink Fish Pot did not say that the board currently has pay to post. What he said was that several years ago, the board went Pay to post, and that rubbed him the wrong way. He did not mention that the board removed pay to post. For him, the ill will remains. Ergo, he does not wish to buy a membership when he does not feel that the board owners respect their membership. To him, it still feels like the pay to post situation. Ergo, he does not want to cooperate.

This. Thank you, Irishman.